In this part three show, we continue to highlight some of the most eye-opening and informative moments from past B.rad interviews.

We start with a clip featuring my favorite guest (can you guess who it is?) speaking about relationship dynamics, why emotional self-sufficiency is integral to the success of a relationship, and how to identify the markers of emotional maturity. Next, we hear Rip Esselstyn questioning the importance of diet over all other lifestyle factors–are our food choices really the #1 thing to focus on getting 100% right all the time, or would we actually be better served by putting in more effort towards balancing out the other areas of our lifestyle that need more attention and care? Next, some inspiration to keep our environments clean and clutter-free arrives with Gretchen Rubin’s revelation that clutter actually provokes a stress response in the body. We also hear a memorable clip from Seth Godin, who gave me one of the greatest, most life-changing pieces of advice I have ever received for productivity and focus, plus many more interesting insights on a variety of topics!

TIMESTAMPS:

Brad is highlighting some of his favorite shows starting with Mia Moore where they discuss what makes a healthy relationship. If you are emotionally mature as a couple, conflict shouldn’t be an issue. [00:01]

Never use a complaining tone of voice. [03:23]

Brian McAndrew points out that sometimes the rigid focus on diet is overemphasized. [04:16]

Ray Sydney talks about how he changed his life when he became wealthy. [08:16]

Seth Godin talks about how intensified competition can become. There is a need to learn to focus. [14:20]

Gabby Reece talks about her marriage and how she handles communication. You have to learn how you are triggered, own it, and make it safe for communication. [18:13]

Laird Hamilton: never let your memories be bigger than your dreams. [23:07]

Gretchen Rubin’s idea is that clutter will provoke a stress response that you aren’t even aware of. [26:37]

Gretchen Rubin’s book The Four Tendencies helps you identify your personality type and how you pair with other types. [28:23]

Dr. Paul Saladino explains why he is so sold on the carnivore diet and how vegetables and fruits are not beneficial and even may be harmful to some. [30:53]

Debbie Potts talks about how to heal the imbalances and depletions that occur from overtraining and burnout. [36:12]

Angela Mavridis compares her childhood healthy lifestyle in Greece with American culture. [40:04]

Larry Sydney gave up his career goals for Olympic dreams in the sport of Skeleton. He talks about the lessons he learned in sport that applies to business. [44:20]

LINKS:

QUOTES:

  • “You can’t win the Boston marathon if you stop for cheesecake.” (Godin)

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (1s): Hey listeners this time for a highlight show with interesting clips and tidbits from many, many previous shows, hopefully you’ll be inspired to go back and listen to the shows that interest you. And I’m going to tee up each of these clips briefly, and then we’ll hear from a wonderful assortment of guests on a variety of topics. And here we go with the first clip it’s from Mia Moore, one of my favorite guests, maybe my favorite of all. And we are talking about relationship dynamics, healthy interactions, the skills that are at the highest priority, emotional self-sufficiency being number one in the eyes of many experts. Brad (43s): And let’s hear a little bit from Mia Moore, she’ll be on the show much more frequently in the future. And looking forward to more discussion, we get into a little bit of the John Gray insights and how they apply to both males and females. And how about that voice? She’s just a natural on the microphone. Enjoy Mia Moore. Mia Moore (1m 5s): The man and the woman. They may just be relationships of the family or, you know, life in general, but, but as far as conflict, I don’t, I feel like a relationship if you’re an emotionally, you know, mature, or how do you want to call that couple? That shouldn’t be an issue. Brad (1m 32s): Okay. You’re, you’re, you’re squinting when you say that, but that’s, that’s beautiful because, and Kris Gage on the medium writes this all the time, that emotional self-sufficiency of the individual is the number one attribute for a successful relationship. And there is no number two until the two, each part of the couple has emotional self-sufficiency and emotional stability. Without that the relationship is bound to crumble because the individual’s not stable and they’re going to blow and compromise the relationship values. Mia Moore (2m 4s): That’s correct. Brad (2m 7s): So if you what’s the would read that definition. Mia Moore (2m 13s): Well, for me, emotional maturity is the ability to handle a situation without escalating it, but that being angry, without blaming the other person, right? For our own behavior, because people do that all the time. They’ll blame someone else for our behavior, our reaction, right? That’s to me, that’s emotional maturity. You fixed, you try to fix the problem, right? Brad (2m 41s): Emotional maturity, again, John Gray summarizing his book. And what he talked about on this show is: Males, your assignment is to never speak. If you have an emotional charge. Do not speak, shut the F up, go away, go into your cave as he calls it. And only to the male, when you’re in a, a positive state where you can express your appreciation because females want to be appreciated the female in a counter. Cause Mia Moore (3m 10s): I don’t want to just put it on the males first. It was just going to say that. What about the female? Who’s always nagging on the Brad (3m 17s): Female side, Mia Moore (3m 18s): Angry and raises her voice because he didn’t do this, that or the other Brad (3m 23s): Never use a complaining tone of voice. The man wants to be the knight in shining armor. He wants to know that you count on him and all those things. So even minor things. Again, this is John Gray insight, even minor things will bug the shit out of him because he wants to be seen as, you know, the someone you can trust and count on. So those are two signs of emotional maturity, emotional self-sufficiency that I have the presence of mind to walk away when I sense a negative emotional charge. And then on the female side, you’re allowed to state your preferences. We’re not talking about, Hey, be a doormat bitch, tell your man he’s a hero when he’s watching Monday night football and, and you know, the, the, the, the pizza boxes have spilled out onto the new carpet. Mia Moore (4m 12s): It’s not just Monday night football. It could also be Sunday afternoon golf. Brad (4m 17s): The next clip is from my main man, Brian McAndrew, long-time co-worker in the Primal Blueprint operation. He’s the guy who makes Mark Sisson and I look good on videos and mastering all the audio podcasts, which is a great job for someone who’s deeply immersed into the, the ancestral living scene. He’s a devoted powerlifter strength trainer in the gym and working his body really hard, super fit. He’s been in a deep keto genic slash carnivorish, eating pattern, a lot of fasting and a lot of personal experimentation. So I think you’re going to get some interesting insights, but here we kind of pull back the reins a little bit and talk about how the big picture goals might be more important than obsessing over the nuances of diet. Brad (5m 7s): So in other words, like getting rid of the junk food, keeping active and moving well, a nice fresh clip from Brian McAndrew. Brian (5m 17s): I think a lot of times we overemphasize the role that diet plays in, as long as you don’t, you know, you don’t want to screw it up, you know, and we talk about, you know, avoiding, you know, sugars, grains in those processed oils. Like once you get rid of that, it’s like maybe diet hold everything else doesn’t even matter that much compared to all the other lifestyle stuff. Yeah. Brad (5m 39s): I’m getting there, man. I mean, I’m, I don’t think I was ever, hopefully not super dogmatic about, you know, my journey and all the different stops, but I know that I’m hanging out with Rip Esselstyn gives me a wonderful perspective. If you don’t know him, he’s an old time triathlon buddy of mine. I’ve known him for 30 years. He’s super positive, enthusiastic. He’s making a fantastic change in the world. And he’s from the entire opposite spectrum of us in the ancestral community. He’s part of his brand is called the Engine Two Diet best-selling book series. His father, Dr. Caldwell from Cleveland clinic is one of the world’s leading researchers and reversing heart disease through diet. And they’re in the plant-based category where they swear off animal products. Brad (6m 22s): They don’t even like oils like olive oil because it’s too fat. And they want to emphasize the Rip calls it the peasant foods of fruits, vegetables, whole grains. But if you spend a little time on a spreadsheet or whatever you want breaking down the various messaging and the various approaches we have, and me and that MOFO went shopping together at the Sacramento natural foods. Co-op with our little baskets, sharing one basket and almost everything in there was group activity. And then he likes to have a little more fruit than I do when I’m in my keto phases. And he doesn’t want to bite of my liver, but oh my gosh, I think it’s for all the listeners to back up a few steps and realize, you know, who said this? Brad (7m 8s): Tommy said this on his blog doctor, tell me what it said. Moving around more is way more important than anything you eat. If you’re not moving around enough, we have to start there. Same with sleep. Anyone would, would chime in there. So now that we got that off your, off our chest, you had this shit ass vegan diet training, too. You’re training too hard, and you had a lousy job. So, yeah, Brian (7m 33s): And that combination of things, sort of a weathered me away into a shell of a, you know, a young, mid 20 year old person. And it was, I think it was during one of these other, one of these trips to Africa. I think maybe the one where I met my future wife and I sort of, at that moment, sort of took a look in the mirror and be like, wow, I’ve I sort of frittered away my health. And at the same time, I actually, I got a parasite when I was over in Africa. So that will further, you know, I’m say you were vulnerable when you went over there. Then I didn’t know that storyline before that, you, you set yourself up by heading over there as a depleted skinny chicken boy has Grace called you, Brad (8m 16s): Hey, here’s the little chit chat I had with ig George AKA Ray Sydney, my neighbor here at lake Tahoe, the main man of Lake Tahoe himself, the number one philanthropists in the area. And he talks about in the full length podcast, his journey of going through the highest level of academia, getting hired by a startup company called Google. He was the fifth person ever hired by Google. And as you might imagine, when Google went public and went crazy, he had a liquidation event, a major lifestyle change at a young age where he relocated and has been turning his attention to other things like philanthropy and his amazing athletic achievements up here. Brad (8m 60s): Anything having to do with water or ice. Interesting conversation, many people dream of having such a journey and big George provides some detailed insights. So enjoy the full length show and this little clip replete with some Borat impersonation. Sorry about that. But we are big fans. So here we go with Ray Sydney, Ray (9m 23s): My younger brother and sister, a younger brother that you may have met recently. They went to Russia to, so I went on a summer trip to Russia, to, you know, they stayed with some friends. Some family, friends of ours were living in Russia over half a year or a year. And I actually wanted to join them. And I didn’t because I was in economy mode and spending a few thousand dollars on our trip to Russia, even if I were going to do it, you know, really ghetto style and really as cheap as I could still as an unnecessary expense. And that can make the difference between me having to go back to work when I’m not ready to, and me not having to go back to work when I’m not ready to. Ray (10m 5s): And so I, okay, well, I, I can hunker down at home in Mountain View and I can still enjoy myself, but I’m still in economy mode. I’m still on a budget here, Brad (10m 16s): Fly first to Kazakhstan. Then you take train to Russia is very cheap. You should have gone. Ray (10m 23s): Okay. You’re back home, hunkering down and working Brad (10m 28s): Out and all that keeping fit with Ray (10m 30s): Yeah. You know, it was like biking, running, lifting weights, such things. Right. But, but I was in economy mode as I, as I say. And so then it worked out and, you know, after the IPO, I exited economy mode somewhat gracefully perhaps, and entered a new life, I guess. And, and, you know, not long thereafter, a few months thereafter, I moved from the bay area to Tahoe. I wasn’t feeling like I had a lot keeping me in the bay area. Tahoe seemed enticing. I liked the idea of having more, more space, more quiet. I don’t need a lot of city life. Ray (11m 12s): I figured I’d be getting in lots of skiing and snowboarding. And a lot of that has worked out. Okay, Brad (11m 18s): Well, you also transitioned to kind of a philanthropic presence, especially here in the Tahoe area, but you, you, you know, your, your boys said don’t be evil, was the quote that got passed around. And I believe also there was some message conveyed about being responsible for the, for the wealth. And I remember reading some wonderful insights about that, where, I mean, it obviously came mostly from you, but with this new life that you had, you also kind of changed your focus and direction to, to see if you can make a difference in other ways, besides writing code. Ray (11m 57s): Well, you know, it looks, everybody’s, everybody’s part of some community and some people for some people or some community or communities. And for some people, you know, they’re super involved in all sorts of ways with all sorts of community organizations, whatever, you know, that that’s not the same thing as, you know, nonprofit, it’s not the same thing as philanthropic, whatever though, these are just, you know, kind of labels, whatever, but there’s all sorts of stuff going on. And, and, and Hey, everybody’s part of it to some extent. And, you know, for me, the fact that, Hey, all of a sudden after the IPO, I had some money meant that, you know, like, okay, that’s one way I can help the community or causes that I believe in, right. I mean, I’ll all of a sudden now I have more money than I’ve ever had, so I can, I can contribute to that. Ray (12m 39s): And, you know, I’ve, I’ve put in some of my time on things, you know, I, I certainly know people, plenty of people who put in a lot more time on, on worthy endeavors than I do. I just, hasn’t worked out that way for me, that I, that I get super involved in this stuff. And, you know, for me, I guess it’s easier, more pleasant, more natural , to help out with, with funding for most things, some exceptions. But, but yeah, Brad (13m 10s): I mean, if there’s a, a flood and they need people to put the sandbags in place, that’s great. But if they need to buy 3000 sandbags, everyone has their unique contribution they can make. Ray (13m 21s): Well, you don’t think I can carry sandbags? Brad (13m 23s): You could probably do both. Yeah. Yeah. So was it such that you were calling around seeing if people needed help? I, I recall the didn’t the elementary school, like not return your call a couple of times, or you were asking them if you could help and they forgot to get back to you or something like that. Ray (13m 40s): Yeah. So, so, you know, education and schools are always near and dear to my heart. And so, so it was a natural thing for me to get try and get involved with the, the school district here where I live. And I think maybe, maybe I kind of showed up suddenly and I, you know, send some, send some emails to, to some of the schools, you know, to the principals and, and yeah. Hey, you know, is there anything that you guys could really use money for? And yeah, sometimes it took a while for them to get back to me. I can think of one example of that. Brad (14m 21s): Okay. Here’s a clip from my crisp and insightful conversation with best-selling author marketing expert and peak performance efficiency experts, Seth Goden in the clip. He’s talking about a reference to one of his great books called The Dip. And this is characterizing how the highest levels of peak performance are extremely competitive. You can think of acting of sports, but anything that you dream of that you cultivate a and a desire to excel in a, you’re going to have a point where your improvement curve sort of levels off. And then you’re faced with working very, very hard to just make incremental gains. Brad (15m 3s): And at the same time, usually the competition gets incredibly intensified. So he labels this as The Dip. And if you can persevere through The Dip., that’s when the great rewards await. Again, thinking of a athlete, performer, someone who’s on stage performing a concert in front of a hundred thousand people. They’ve made it through The Dip., just like anybody in a uniform on the professional arena. But for all of us dreaming of big goals and pursuing the highest expression of our talents, we’re going to have a point where there’s a Dip. And then Seth talks about getting the most out of your potential by focusing and disciplining yourself against the constant opportunity for distraction and diversion. Brad (15m 53s): And in the show, man, he had a life-changing quote for me. So go and listen to the full length show where I asked him, Hey, Seth, you know, I’m trying to write these books and pursue the highest expression of my talents. And the email inbox is such a pain because it always distracts me. And it’s so tough to motivate and focus. How do I do it? And he said, turn that shit off and get the work done. So this is a little juicy stuff from Seth that I think will motivate and inspire you. And have you figuring out what’s most important and the hard steps that you have to take to focus in and zero in and be the best you can be. Seth Godin. Seth (16m 33s): The essence of what I’m saying to people is there are no promises about a comfortable way to get through The Dip. Knowing that there is a Dip helps us find it uncomfortable way to go through it. And so I don’t have a television and I don’t go to meetings. Now, most people don’t miss meetings, but a lot of people would miss not having a television. But rip it out, just turn off your cable, close your Twitter account. Go ahead. Because the work is too important for that. And we know that when we watch, you mentioned sports. When we watch a competitor running in the Boston marathon. She doesn’t stop in the middle for a piece of cheesecake, but cheesecake would be delicious. Seth (17m 17s): It doesn’t matter. You don’t win the Boston marathon if you’re going to stop for cheesecake. So if you’re working on a book and it’s going to make people’s lives better, just disconnect all your social media. I know it’s painful, but that’s why they call it work. At least we don’t have to dig ditches. Brad (17m 31s): Oh my gosh. I think we just have the headline quota the month. You can’t win the Boston marathon if you stop for cheesecake, Seth, I appreciate you so much, man. Tell us where the best places to find you. I want everyone to read the blog and I really mean this. Like you make it through the gate because of the, the, the brevity and the profound significance of these short posts. But otherwise I’m doing a good job filtering out anything that’s lengthy. So Seth (17m 58s): I’m glad to hear that. Visit akimbo.com, AKI M B O.com. And you can meet about our workshops and the alt MBA. And you can find my blog by typing Seth into Google, Brad (18m 10s): Seth Godin. Thank you. Keep it up. Hey, let’s check in with Gabby Reece. You may know her as international fitness, celebrity, television, personality, supermodel, former pro volleyball player. And I had the good fortune of meeting her personally on several occasions, hanging out with Sisson in Malibu. And this girl is really special. I mean, let me tell you. She’s popular. She’s a public figure, but she’s so deep and thoughtful, and she has such amazing insights about relationships and about living a fulfilling, meaningful life. I remember picking up her book. It was called My Foot is Too Big for the Glass Slipper. Brad (18m 50s): She’s a six foot three and a half of volleyball player. So I think that was the essence of the title. And I just gave it a listen and the message was so incredibly powerful and vulnerable. I really became a big fan from a distance. And then I remember my first encounter with her just hanging out at a restaurant and walking out and they were walking in or something. And I talked to her for like three minutes and we just had the most amazing conversation talking about parenting and the higher ideals and the reflections and the dilemmas that we have as a parent. Her kids are there in tow, and then we were out of the way and onto our busy days, but I tracked her down. She was so kind to give me the time to do a podcast and also helped me get set up with her husband, Laird Hamilton, which is another fantastic podcast coming on the heels of this highlight. Brad (19m 40s): And just to show you what kind of person she is. She gave out a nice little shout on social media when our episode aired at which I appreciate guests doing, but with her amazing following. We had a huge response to that and gained a lot of new listeners to the show. So, Hey, I appreciate you doing that yourself to your big network of people. Tell them about the show and especially about this amazing clip with Gabby Reece. Maybe they’ll go back and listen to the whole episode. Here we go. Gabby (20m 11s): The idea that we hurt the person we love makes us very afraid instead of saying, okay, can you explain what you mean? And that certainly was not my intention. I, and by the way, it took me a good solid seven years to, to freely find the way to say, I’m sorry. It was very hard for me because the way I grew up, I had to secure and hold onto my own truth so desperately because I didn’t have people around me that I really could trust. So I had to be so definitive about what I was thinking and feeling that it also made it be like really hard for me to say, I was sorry. And with Laird. Gabby (20m 51s): Laird has taught me that, but we just have to realize if we’re triggered. Why are we triggered? And we certainly can’t tell people how they’re feeling. You know, you can’t tell anyone well that you’re not feeling that. Well. no, no, they are. And, and it’s so much quicker. This goes back to when we don’t put up resistance, you can get through it like that. I mean, they can say, well, this hurts my feelings. And you can say, oh, did I? Okay, well, can you explain to me how, and you know what, I’m so sorry. That was not my intention. And let me tell you, that’s actually more important than never hurting their feelings because they can say, I can go to this person with my feelings and trust them to handle it carefully. Gabby (21m 39s): And that will inspire me the next time. I’m feeling something to say something and you become a safe person, and then hopefully you inspire them to be a safe person. And, and then you can, you can have your feelings. Cause we all have our feelings. I mean, you know, feeling, Brad (21m 56s): If you’re both safe, you then have some emotional control, emotional stability built into the relationship where you can share without the, the drama and the emotional charge that we see in dysfunction. I think that would be the ultimate goal. Gabby (22m 13s): That’s why we have to try to find ways to be productive and challenged positively in life. Because if we’re not, we definitely will look for it some action somewhere. And so it’s probably with the partner being like, you know what, I’m a little bored. Let’s live in this up a little bit. So that’s why I think getting out there and trying to like make your life colorful with stuff that like works in your favor and experience things, because then you won’t need to have that as much at home. I mean, hopefully you have excitement and, you know, growth and, and certainly healthy challenges, you know, are challenges in me all the time and passion and things like that. Gabby (22m 59s): But hopefully it won’t have to be like, I get all my excitement from creating friction with my partner, Brad (23m 6s): Alright. Get ready for a big giant bundle of positive energy and enthusiasm that is Laird Hamilton. And this guy, everything he touches turns to gold. It’s just amazing. The journey that he’s been on. Maybe you’ve read about his Laird Superfood brand, which has now blown up big time with millions of dollars of venture capital and growth. And he talks about just hopes and dreams and you know, trying to be the best you can be not getting stuck in your past. Love this guy’s energy. It’s the same in real life. Let me tell you, this guy is the real deal and time you listen to him or read something. Brad (23m 47s): One of his wonderful books, we were doing the interview based around his 2019 book release called Liferider, Heart, Body, Soul, and Life Beyond the Ocean. And it was a quick read, but it was really powerful with some amazing life insights and philosophy from the big wave surf king himself, the man’s man, Laird Hamilton. Listen to they clip. Laird (24m 15s): I have a saying for that, right? Never let your memories be bigger than your dreams. So at the end of the day, don’t let me know. There’s a, it was an anonymous stunt manner said, you know, never let your memories be bigger than your dreams. And I think that we all need to remember that because if you stop having dreams, then you stop having hope. And if there’s no, if there’s no hope, all is loss. I mean, as long as you got love, you can survive because love is the king. But without hope it’s it’s a pretty sad road. And I think, you know, when you, when you live off of your past, I think we just need to remember like, Hey, that anything’s possible and that you can, and that you haven’t seen the best years of your life. Laird (24m 60s): I think it’s, I think are the best moments or the, you know, or the, or the, I just think there’s so much to look forward to. And there’s so many things to do. How could we possibly talk about, you know, being the champ of the football team in high school as the apex of our life? Like we gotta, we gotta rewrite, you know, that you got to change something and, and, and, and, and have, you know, get a dream and start, you know, start working on it. But, and I know it’s easy to say that. And, but, but the fact is is that, that it can be as easy as just having that thought that it really, it can be as simple as believing that you can, but we gotta have some hopes. We gotta have some dreams. Laird (25m 40s): I mean, it’s, it’s, you know, th the end, I mean, you know, and back to what you said about the superfood stuff, you know, that my whole food thing is all based around trying to make people feel better. So how can I, I heard a statistic at one point that the most nutritious thing that some Americans do is drink coffee. And I’m like, if that is true, if that’s true, then we need to try to put some stuff in there. And then there, and then from that, from that concept, Laird Super Food was born. And, and then now it’s, you know, now we’re working on all kinds of great new products and people are loving, loving the loving, the products that we have and, and loving the new ones that we’re coming out with. Laird (26m 23s): So it’s, it’s about, I mean, I feel like that’s a contribution that again, you want to make a difference in the world. You feed people good stuff and watch them excel. I mean, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s not that tricky. Brad (26m 37s): Hey, listeners enjoy this quick, but insightful informative clip from New York times, bestselling author, Gretchen Rubin, she has an extremely popular lifestyle blog, Gretchen Rubin.com. Her books are very interesting and wonderful, compelling topics. I got her talking about her book, The Four Tendencies in this clip, which has been really memorable for me. It’s a way to categorize people into four different personality tendencies, and you can go take the quiz on her website, Gretchen rubin.com. It takes a few minutes, and you will identify which of the four tendencies you are. And she explains each one of them for us. Brad (27m 18s): And how you learn about how you interact with the world and how to best interact with others based on their personality tendency. She also wrote a nice book about tidying up and cleaning up your home space to reduce stress. This is not in the clip, but it’s in the whole show. And it was a really memorable insight. She gave a referencing scientific study that merely looking at a pile of clutter will provoke a stress response subconsciously. So you don’t even realize that that unfinished home improvement project with the piles of paint supplies or whatever’s over there in the corner will stress you out because you haven’t dealt with it. Brad (27m 60s): So there’s a good plug for grabbing her 2019 book, Outer Order, Inner Calm, Declutter, and organize to make more room for happiness. And then also her 2017 book, The Four Tendencies, they indispensable personality profiles that reveal how to make your life better. Okay. Gretchen Rubin. Gretchen (28m 23s): So I’ll just briefly describe The Four Tendencies. So people know what we’re talking about and we’re opposites in a way, like I’m an upholder and you’re a rebel. So that’s good. There isn’t, Brad (28m 32s): There was pairs that could work, right? Gretchen (28m 35s): Yeah. Rebel and upholder is the most difficult tendency. Brad (28m 39s): That’s the most difficult, Gretchen (28m 41s): Like if you have a partner, I’m guessing that your partner is an obliger. Yeah. Because that’s overwhelmingly the case. If one person is rebel, the other person is an obliger. That’s overwhelmingly the case. And except for certain very predictable exceptions to that, that’s almost always true. So there’s upholders, questioners, obligers, and rebels. This is my four tendencies personality framework. I wrote a book about it. And there’s a quiz. If you want to take a quiz that tells you what you are, you can take at quiz@gretchenrubin.com. But most people don’t even like just in the brief discussion that we’ll have most people know, can figure out their tendencies. So it has to do with how you respond to expectations, outer expectations, like a work deadline and inner expectations, like a request from a friend. Gretchen (29m 30s): And so, depending on how you respond to outer and inner expectations, you’re either an upholder, questioner, obliger, rebel. So upholders readily meet outer and inner expectations. They meet the work deadline. They keep the new year’s without much fuss. They want to know what other, they want to know what others expect for them. But their expectations for themselves are just as important. Then there are questioners questioners question, all expectations. They’ll do something. If they think it makes sense. So they’re making everything an inner expectation. They resist anything.Arbitrary. Ineffective, irrational. They need to know why before they’ll comply. Then there are obligers. Obligers, readily meet outer expectations, but they struggle to meet inner expectations. So I got my insight into this. When a friend said, I don’t understand it. Gretchen (30m 11s): When I was in high school, I was on the track team and I never missed track practice. Why can’t I go running now? Well, when you had a team and a coach expecting you to show up no problem, but when you’re just trying to go on your own, you struggle. And then finally, rebels, rebels resist outer and inner expectations. They want to do what they want to do in their own way. In their own time. They can do anything they want to do. They can do anything they choose to do. But if you ask or tell them to do something, they’re very likely to resist. And typically they don’t like to tell themselves what to do. Like they often wouldn’t do something like sign up for a 10:00 AM, spin class on Saturdays, because they’re like, I don’t know what I’m going to want to do on Saturday. And just the fact that somebody is expecting me to show up is just annoying. So those are the four tendencies. Brad (30m 53s): Next up is Dr. Paul Saladino the carnivore MD. And indeed he has been doing a great job as one of the leaders of the burgeoning carnivore diet movement, and whole, my goodness. This is an exercise in critical thinking and remaining open-minded. When I first heard about the carnivore movement, I dismissed it as something that was ridiculous and fringe, because it did not align with my fixed and rigid beliefs that a colorful plate of vegetables should be the centerpiece of your diet. And Dr. Saladino presents a very compelling argument that plant foods may not be necessary for human health. Brad (31m 36s): And in fact, for many people, it could be unhealthy due to their sensitivity, to the natural toxins that are contained in all plants and throughout his conversations anywhere you hear him talking or writing, he does an extremely good job at referencing scientific research and making a very thoughtful and compelling and well-supported argument for his seemingly radical positions. But boy, this stuff is catching on. If you want to go look at meatheals.com, Dr. Sean Baker’s work. You can read hundreds of success stories of people who have healed from an assortment of autoimmune and inflammatory illnesses, chronic illnesses that they couldn’t get relief from with mainstream approaches. Brad (32m 21s): And then a 30 day restriction period where plants all plants are restricted. So a carnivore style eating pattern brings immediate healing. So it’s nothing to be trivialized or scoffed at. And boy, Dr. Paul does a great job, even in the short clip. I’m sure you’ll be inspired to listen to his entire show. As I was captivated, the first time I heard him talking at length about the carnivore diet and also Dr. Sean Baker, who was on the show and we’ll have a highlight clip from him coming soon. But here comes Dr. Saladino bringing it hard. Paul (32m 57s): You can get a hormetic boost from eating the plant poison, but remember the other thing that people don’t talk about that those plant poisons will they’ll get us in the end. You know, you may get a hormetic boost in terms of glutosiome, but if you look carefully and we can talk about resveratrol. We can talk about curcumin. We can talk about any compound that you want to talk about. If you look in the human body, it’s doing something else bad somewhere else, because it’s not from our operating system, right? It’s like people want to focus on the good thing because they want to sell supplements, or because they want to pretend that there are these magical molecules that are going to make us live longer. And in fact, they’re just not from our operating system. Why do you need something from a plant? Look at an animal. It’s just like you, everything you need to be out. Paul (33m 39s): The animal is in that animal. And if you try and eat things from plants, they’re just going to hurt you in the end. You may get a little glutathione, but it’s going to have other negative effects that you can’t avoid. So I would argue they’re all net negative and check this out. If you look at studies that have been done with fruit and vegetables, I love these. There are actual fruit and vegetable intervention studies that have been done. And when they’re ranging in length from four to 10 weeks, what they did in these studies, there’s about five of them. They took people and they divided them into two groups. And one group ate a bunch of fruits and vegetables on the order of like a number of pounds of them a week. And the other group had zero or a very small amount of fruits and vegetables. Like they had groups of people who ate no fruit and vegetables for 10 weeks, right? Paul (34m 23s): And they had another group that was eating five to six pounds of fruit and vegetables per week, right. A huge amount and included in that fruits and vegetables were things like apples and oranges and brassica, vegetables, Jerusalem artichokes, and broccoli. All the things we’ve been told are very beneficial. They outline which fruits and vegetables they want people to eat. And at the end of four weeks, or at the end of 10 weeks, they looked at oxidative stress, DNA damage, markers of liquid peroxidation. And what do you think they found? No difference, no difference. So the idea, and in one study, they found worsening, right? There’s an incredible study that I can give you the title of it because people want to read it where they found worsening of oxidative stress parameters. Paul (35m 5s): When people ate flavonoid rich vegetables, and in the other studies, they found no difference. Suggesting the notion that fruits and vegetables, those are benefiting you from an oxidative stress for DNA damage long-term has never been supported by an interventional study with fruits and vegetables. This is mind blowing, right? You can take us off [inaudible] and you can look at it in cell culture, or you can just look at DNA damage short term. But when they do the interventional studies, there’s no benefit. Why are we eating them? And then the other thing is, even in these studies, they’re not even looking at the way that the vegetables could be negative. They’re just looking at the things that they thought were going to show benefit, because these are the people they want it to say, Hey, look, eating fruits and vegetables improves DNA damage and improves your oxidative stress markers, lo and behold, they couldn’t show that it didn’t change it. Paul (35m 50s): And people will say, well, it didn’t make it worse. And well, there is one study that shows that it was worse. And then I would argue that they didn’t look at the right outcomes. They also didn’t look at thyroid function. You know, they didn’t look at overall iodine levels. There are so many metrics that we can look at for a human. But if we look at overall health, there’s no evidence that fruits and vegetables are beneficial. Brad (36m 9s): Here comes Debbie Potts six time, Hawaii Ironman finisher, host of the Low Carb Athlete podcast and recovering burnout victim from the chronic over-training patterns that we see so commonly at the highest levels of endurance sport. And now she’s become an expert on leading a healthy, balanced life, including the pursuit of functional medicine and advanced nutritional testing and scrutiny to help heal these imbalances and depletions that occur from overdoing it and getting into that burnout phase. So a little tidbit from Debbie, you see much more on her podcast and of course, listening to the full length show. Debbie (36m 53s): So a nutrition world and functional medicine, I think a lot of people are doing all the lab words like lab tests that you do not get from your doctor. They’re very much more detailed. I’ve been using athlete’s blood tests. I’ve used wellness at FX, but there’s one step further. You need to go. And that’s what I feel like nutritional therapy helps. So I don’t know if that answers your question around about way. I think, you know, is looking at nutrition for you as a bio individual. Brad (37m 21s): Well, take me back to those shocking, quick comments you made, because here you are a champion world level athlete, who’s training for hours per day and going out and riding the bike a hundred miles and doing 20 mile runs and competing in Hawaii in the, in the hot weather and putting up another great finish and then going back the next year and doing it. And all of a sudden, you’re saying you gained 30 pounds. You feel like a lazy fat slug. You’re not even sleeping, which also is strange because if you’re tired and you’ve exercise too much, you would think you’d be sleeping like a log. So what was that all about? And what did the doctors tell you when you finally went to seek help and the different doctors? Debbie (38m 4s): Well, that’s what, you know, My Life is Not a Race books about is that it kept trying to get help. So like these people, aren’t telling me what I feel like I need to know. I keep, I kept searching for, to get the right answer. And I think that’s what evolved to the holistic method and finding, figuring it out for myself, but it is, you know, that the training and the racing and the constant stress that we talk about all the time that chronic stress and burnout is, is kind of what led up to this. And, you know, it’s funny cause I did so many Ironmans, but it, I, and I missed some years at Ironman, Hawaii, X might go, I don’t feel like it this year. You know, I did it last year. I don’t want to do it again. Debbie (38m 44s): And then, you know, suddenly 2012 was my last iron me on and I haven’t been able to race since 2013. It was when this all started. And five years later, I still can’t get myself together and my body doesn’t want to go run comfortably at my MAF heart rate under nine minute pace. You know, it was just been a five years ongoing. So racing was not really the full part of my stress that caused this health breakdown from the inside out. It’s really that chronic stress from life. And that’s why I feel like this topic can relate to everybody because it’s financial stress. Debbie (39m 25s): It says, I own my own business. I have say $7,000 a month, five to pay rent. And I want to get paid too. And I have to pay my trainers. And you know, it’s this constant stress trying to build a business marketing. I mean, all of that, whatever it might be for you, that’s the problem. I think we, we have in our society is that we’re trying to do so much. We’re trying to be successful. We’re trying to fit more into the day. And then as triathlete, we’re fitting, you know, swim, bike, run workouts, plus are strength, our mobility and our yoga. And we’re trying to do that. Plus have a family and have a life and try to be social and get your sleep. So it’s really hard to put that all in a day, Brad (40m 3s): Enjoy this clip from my interview with Angela Mavridis, founder of Tribali Foods. And we have a wonderful story of entrepreneurial American dream at its finest. Angela started this company making delicious, organic, healthy, frozen meat products with great flavoring based on her Greek background and the wonderful cuisine that she grew up with. But she had a long stint as a vegetarian for decades even know the family business that she worked in since she was a child, was a string of hamburger restaurants. Brad (40m 44s): And then I guess not feeling great, a little tired, haggard, busy mom, she had a craving for meat one day and she said it was the greatest thing she’d ever tasted. And that led her on her journey of making her own wonderful blends that she ground herself. She’d get the raw material from Whole Foods down the street and make these concoctions at home. Everyone was asking for more the classic story of an amazing business startup. And now you’ll find Tribali Foods products in all the major stores and chains around the country. But this clip talks about her upbringing, where she would go back and forth from a base in California, two summers in Greece and getting re-emerged back into the wonderful cultural traditions and how much healthier and more balanced of a lifestyle, healthier diet, healthier everything that her summers were. Brad (41m 36s): And then she’d get back reimersed into American culture and suffer health consequences accordingly. So a nice little clip from a great show with Angela Mavridis. Enjoy. Angela (41m 49s): I grew up spending my summers in Greece. So I was born there. I moved here when I was six years old, but I also went back subsequently every summer. And I had a group of friends there and of course my group of friends here, right. I’d go to school here nine months out of the year, and then we’d be shipped off to Greece every summer until I was so probably college till I went to college. I even did that even my first two years of college. I remember because I was in a sorority and they have like inspire week. I’m like I’m sorry I’m going to be in Greece. I’ll be back. Brad (42m 18s): Yeah. Angela (42m 19s): So, so I had in my group of friends there and it was amazing, the food that we would eat, how we would play the outdoor time, so different than the life here, you know? And it’s just Brad (42m 31s): So they were behind us by a number of years where it was even better than here at the time. Is that what you’re saying? Like your, your experience here as a teenager or whatever, Angela (42m 43s): Right. It was so much better there because, because there was just outdoor play. We were in the sun, in the water, the food was always fresh. There was no fast food. There was no drive through Brad (42m 54s): Mediterranean diet Angela (42m 55s): Yeah, which really, I sort of joke. I started paleo because kind of, that’s how I grew up Mediterranean food, paleo to confusion. And then back again, right. I spent my teens confused. Like, what do I eat? How do I eat fat free? This, you know, meat is bad for you. It’s going to cause cancer. That’s why I thought, okay, let me embark on that vegetarian diet. It sounds like the best diet for health and all the scares of the fat, you know, saturated, fat and cholesterol and what have you. And now I circled back to eating the exact same way that I was eating, growing up in Greece. I mean, Mediterranean, paleo, real food diet, Brad (43m 32s): Most likely, really high quality animals back then in Greece. Angela (43m 36s): Oh yeah. Right. Even now, even now. Yeah. I mean, yeah. You get some lamb. Yeah. Big difference. And you can feel it. I remember just thriving. I felt like I grew taller. I leaned out three summers there. My digestion was fine. I didn’t have acne. You know, all the things that teenagers go through. And then I would come here and I was a little bit more sedentary. I was a little bit, even though we cooked healthy at home, dad owned a fast food hamburger drive thru. So it was burgers, fries, and burgers, fries, and a shake more often than not. So I felt like, you know, acne and all the issues. And then I’d go to Greece three months. It would clear up, I would come back. I’d have issues again, Brad (44m 16s): Enjoy my interview with Lake Tahoe’s own. Larry Sidney and our show was about his amazing journey where late in life in his late forties. He dropped everything to go all out in pursuit of an Olympic dream. He became captivated by the Olympic winter sport of skeleton. And he went for it, got into training, qualified for the world cup circuit, representing the great nation of Israel. And he competed at a very high level for a few years on the circuit and just gave everything his heart and soul into this interesting midlife career transition career pause to go for sports. Brad (44m 58s): And in this clip, he’s talking about the value that comes from competing in a intense environment like athletics and how you can transfer that over into all other peak performance goals that you seek in life, especially in the career scene and the same attributes that we’re looking for when we’re hiring people or trying to build a winning team in the business world. So enjoy this short clip from my show about Larry Sidney and his Olympic dream in the skeleton. Larry (45m 29s): I’ll start by saying, I’m not looking for a big company to hire me right now because I have some other things going on, but I’m the kind of person, somebody, somebody who has been through that and has taken those lessons and now can take the same lessons you learned in sport, the same lessons you learned about giving a hundred percent to get back a hundred percent. Those are the things that, that can make someone successful in other areas of their life. And so if you’re, if you’re a business and you’re looking for, for amazing employees, you know, some of the people who I was competing with and competing against are exactly those kinds of people. And I see them, I see them transitioning to those roles in companies, or I see them while they’re training, also working at some of these companies that support that. Larry (46m 17s): And they’re just as, just as amazing in the workplace as they are training for the Olympics and training in these sports. And I think that’s, that’s an amazing lesson for people out there. And if you’re a parent and you’re, you’re wondering, you know, gosh, all this time I put into carting my kid around to the soccer games or the gymnastics, you know, meets on the weekends or, or, you know, is this going to be worth it? If my kid doesn’t get a scholarship to college and you know, big picture, my answer is, oh my God, of course it is. And, and I’d, I’d have to imagine that you know that you have some thoughts on that too. Brad (46m 51s): Oh my Gosh. That’s yeah. You said it all. I mean, we’re, we’re so fixated on the end result. I mean, this is my entire recurring theme for the podcast is to get over yourself and appreciate the journey and cultivate that pure motivation whereby you don’t attach your self-esteem to the result. And you don’t feel like a failure in front of your wife waiving the Israeli flag and your kid. And you’re like, oh, dang, I got third place. It’s like, you got it. Know that was the third-place victory, because you just smashed a PR and went 85 miles an hour.  Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions, and questions for the Q and A shows, subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. Brad (55m 58s): It helps raise the profile of the be read podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.Rad.

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Host Brad Kearns welcomes health coach and supplement expert Sara Banta to discuss some really far out healing protocols involving vibrational energy. 

Sara is a busy, high energy mother of teenagers, as well as a lifelong athlete, but her health went into decline after having children. When her young son developed some serious health problems, she felt compelled to depart from a promising career in finance and explore the outer limits of holistic, functional healing. 

In this episode, Sara describes the importance of “increasing your frequency” and boosting your immune function through a ketogenic eating pattern and targeted supplementation. This information will help address one of the major concerns for the aging population, which is hormone dysregulation caused by toxic environmental influences (EMF, air pollution, etc.) as well as insulin resistance caused by poor food choices. We also touch on topics such as toxic metals (how they get into our systems and the most effective way of detoxing from them), how environmental pollutants are taking a serious toll on male and female fertility, how to identify and treat the source of the problem (and not just the symptoms), and finally, why not all “healthy” food is actually healthy for you.

Sara has had experience and success using alternative therapies to address everything from acne to insomnia to liver issues, heavy metal toxicity, mood disorders, thyroid issues, to so much more, so be sure to check out her website, AcceleratedHealthProducts.com.

TIMESTAMPS:

Sara’s turn from studying business and psychology took an about face when her health changed during her pregnancy. [01:22]

When son became ill, he, too, had his blood put under a microscope. He was put on Accelerated Silver. [05:14]

After having a concussion and feeling overwhelmed, Sara was introduced to keto. [08:38]

What are frequency-based enhancements? [11:39]

Some of this sounds pretty goofy. How do you get people to consider this information as valid? [17:28]

People are looking for a more natural solution to their health problems. [20:21]

Toxic metal substances in the body… how does that happen? How do you detox from heavy metals and radiation?  [23:38]

Airplanes flying overhead are polluting the environment. [28:51]

All the pollutants in the environment are causing fertility problems. Men’s sperm count is about 50 % lower than a generation ago. Women’s hormones are not functioning well. [29:40]

Not all “healthy” food is healthy for you. [34:04]

Animal products have most of the nutrients that we are trying to get from vegetables. [45:17]

Accelerated keto in the morning kicks her into ketosis. Her daily food intake and exercise create high energy and brain energy. [52:44]

LINKS:

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Brad (1m 23s): Sara Banta. Oh my gosh. How fun to get to switch places with you. I was an honored guest on your super awesome Accelerated Health radio. And now we get to put you in the hot seat and I can’t wait to get into some of these really interesting areas of your expertise. And I know listeners can learn more with all the great shows that you have on Accelerated Health radio. So hopefully they’ll, they’ll, they’ll push over there, but right now welcome. Sara (1m 51s): Thanks, Brad. I always love talking to you. You’re so much fun, so easy conversations, always going in directions. We don’t know, but it’s always a good time Brad (2m 1s): Rock and roll. We don’t we? And I think a good place to start is just introducing yourself to the listeners, but also the, the story. And I know everyone’s a lot of health experts have a story, and I think it’s really important to, to start there and connect with that and, and understand like the passion and the life experience that you bring to the table here. So take it away. Sara (2m 24s): Alrighty. Well like everybody in this industry, my path took a different turn. I was, you know, went to Stanford, studied economics and psychology. I thought I was going to go into stocks and bonds and then into real estate and little did I know that my health was going to take me into a whole different direction. Got married, started having kids. And with every pregnancy, my health got a little worse because every mom out there knows that that baby is going to strip everything from you. If you’re not healthy. And I had gut issues, I was loaded with heavy metals. Sara (3m 7s): PCOS I actually had a hard time getting pregnant, all three of my pregnancies, which God willing, they all happened and just had zero energy. My stomach was bloated, constipated, diarrhea, you name it. I had it. And so went to the GI doctor and they literally said, oh, you’ve got IBS and that’s it. And here’s your prescription or go take them, you know, go cut out the sugar sweeteners out of your diet. And that’s about it. I’m like, oh my gosh, well, there’s more to this story. And when I went to my practitioner, he scanned me with what’s called a scalar machine. Sara (3m 52s): And this is a frequency based machine based on Nikola Teslas scalar waves technology. And it scans your body for over 10,000 items. And what I found out was like I mentioned loaded in heavy metals, aluminum, mercury, and lead. And then I had PCOS. My testosterone was high. My blood sugar was high. Now, Brad, I grew up in a household that ate a ton of sugar, but I knew that carbs and gluten didn’t really feel good in my stomach. Didn’t know why didn’t know anything about it, but I was very picky with my eating. Sara (4m 33s): But fat was bad. So I loaded up on the fat-free sugar loaded foods. And my insulin was, I started becoming insulin resistant. So I didn’t know that had any relation to PCOS. And we’ll talk about that a little later, but then started peeling the onion with my own health within one month. My, my periods, my menstrual cycle got regular, which they had never been. I was an athlete all through high school. Rowed at the national level. I played volleyball. Our team was second in the nation. I played with Misty May for those who are volleyball lovers. Sara (5m 15s): And that was really fun. So I always have been an athlete, always loved the, the, that, that part of my life still do a lot of athletics just for fun. And I have three, three very athletic kids that keep me going. But what happened was, as we were peeling the onion essentially of my health, my nine year old son at the time was not feeling well. He looked yellow. He wasn’t doing well. And I thought, this is not my kid. This good student and little athlete didn’t want to go to his 20 minute swim lesson. Sara (5m 55s): He was not finishing his homework. So I had him scanned by the machine that we are talking about and what he, we were seeing were, were patterns of leukemia. So I got him taken to a blood, a live blood cell test where they put the blood underneath the microscope. So we can really see what’s going on. There were cancer cells everywhere, Brad. It was awful. I was in tears and I had my nine-year-old son look at me and he goes, Mom, why are you crying? You’re going to fix me. And I said that it’s at that moment, I knew I had a bigger calling than mom and my life. Sara (6m 35s): I had to help him. And there were so many other kids out there that I was seeing suffering or being taken to the doctor for a little sniffle and getting put on an antibiotic. And we put him on what’s what’s now my flagship supplement called Accelerated Silver. And this is not just a colloidal silver. It takes colloidal silver to the nth degree, but we put them on that, cleaned up his diet a little bit. I didn’t know about diet like I do now. So we did the best we could took that took out most processed foods and sugars. If we could. And just within a year, his energy started improving. Sara (7m 18s): His schooling was better. He, his teacher even said to me, Sara, I don’t know what you’ve done, but Jackson’s back. He’s back. He’s he’s himself again. And so a year later we got his blood redone and I was now crying with tears of joy because not only were there no cancer cells, but the blood was alkaline. The cells were nice and plump and dark. And, and before they were really clumpy and acidic and very nutritionally deficient. And he looked at me again and he goes, Mom, I don’t know why you’re so happy. I knew you were going to fix me. Sara (7m 58s): And so then I looked at him at this little prodigy. He was going to be my little a tool for the next nine years. He didn’t know it. Now he’s 18. He, two years ago, he broke a national record in rowing and he has not been sick one day in the last nine years. He’s played water polo, rowing and around all of his friends who literally had the cold and flu all day long, his two sisters, maybe a little sniffle here and there. Not one of them has missed a day of school in the last nine years, let alone go to the doctor for a sick checkup. Sara (8m 38s): And it’s been amazing. And because of that, that’s what I knew that my bigger calling was to help other people and other parents know that there’s another option. There’s another way out. It’s not just Western medicine and there’s a place for Western medicine, Brad, because you know, to fast forward 2015, I’m doing pretty well. Think I’m pretty healthy. And my daughter and I get rear rear-ended at 50 miles an hour in a car accident. And at that moment, I had a scar on my eye up here, or a cut, I should say, say down to the bone, I had four layers of stitches put in and the doctor gave me an antibiotic. Sara (9m 24s): I threw it in the trash. I put the silver on my scar topically. I took it orally. I also put my collagen on it, topically and orally. And with four, within four days, I hardly could see the scar. And I went back to the doctor and he said, wow, I can’t believe how fast it’s healing. So that was one thing. But what I didn’t know with that accident was that it was going to really hit my mental state. And I was a straight A student at Stanford. And I, now all of a sudden was a mom that could not write a market list without getting overwhelmed. Sara (10m 5s): I couldn’t remember to wash the shampoo out of my hair. I would find myself on the floor in tears, just overwhelmed with life and just with the daily activities because of the concussion I had and the inflammation in my brain. And that didn’t really set in right away. It was more of two to three weeks out. And it was no coincidence that that is when I was introduced to the ketogenic diets and a ketogenic supplement that literally reduce the inflammation in my brain and got me out of that fog and I had started hearing, of course,keto was marketed for those who wanted to lose weight. Sara (10m 51s): I didn’t need to lose weight, but for the brain power, I just was, I was just blown away. So I knew this was something I wanted to get into. I really started playing around with it, telling people about it, diving into the research over it, and fast forward. I now have my own supplement, Accelerated Keto that takes it to another level. So my, my business is surrounded by supplements that takes something this good. And we make it better with frequency based enhancements, or just tweaking it with aremetic or Chinese medicine ingredients to make things work, make them all work better. Brad (11m 39s): So what is this frequency based enhancements? Can you describe that? And also talk about that machine that was also frequency based just for the listener that wants to get acquainted with this kind of, I guess you’d call it a, You know, a functional health or alternative health concept. Sara (11m 58s): Yeah. And it, you know, it kind of sounds voodoo to some people, but what I have to liken it too, is music. When you’re in a room and you’re hearing some music that you want to dance to, it, it feels very healing or some meditation music. It puts you into a zone or maybe something really like heavy metal that just doesn’t vibe with your body. That is frequency. So, or when you go and you get an ultrasound that is frequency. What I’m talking about is scalar waves by Nicola Tesla. He assured that a new era of this science decades ago. Sara (12m 39s): And it’s a type of type of, of scalar wave or a wave that tells that the cells communicate with each other using these types of waves, bio informational signals between them. So what we’ve done and, and the scan machine that I mentioned earlier is based on this technology. Now, the scalar machine is a $30,000 machine. It takes a lot of education to you to use it. And I’ve been seeing a practitioner for the last 15 years using it. So I think I’m very educated with it, but what’s so great. Now, Brad, is that there are actually devices that you can put on your phone. Sara (13m 22s): I actually have one on my wrist right now and it’s hooked to my phone and it’s a miniature scalar machine that is less than a thousand dollars. And it’s called the Genius Insight app. But what it does is scan my body through my voice. I just talk into it. And it’s, it tells me where my hormones are, my organs, my, my energy levels, where my aura is my meridians and what, what emotional traumas I’m dealing with. It’s amazing. And then what it does is that we’ll play tones back to heal you and put you back into homeostasis. Sara (14m 2s): So that scalar machine was just the big, the big machine that really dove deep into my health and my family’s health and telling me what was going on in tweaking things. And with that, it was a great validator for, as I changed my diet or started different supplements, how that was affecting my body on a weekly basis. So it was great biofeedback say, instead of guessing and saying, well, this supplements working for me or this supplements not working for me. Cause you know, those people out there that are very sensitive to certain things they do. And then there’s people who say, well, I don’t know what’s going on. Sara (14m 44s): I don’t know what anything’s doing. So, you know, there’s so much to say here. What we’ve learned too is now you can take supplements like the, so for him, this is the gold. I have accelerated gold and silver. Gold has been known for thousands of years to heal any anxiety, help with sleep, calm your brain down, improve IQ, and actually connect yourself to your higher self. Well, what we’ve done is we’ve taken the silver and the gold and we’ve put it in. It’s not colloidal or there’s very little colloidal silver, it’s more nano particles. Sara (15m 28s): So the particle size is much smaller and it’s much more easily absorbed. We put it through a water implosion technology that strips it of any rogue frequencies. So any frequencies we don’t want in here because you know, water holds information, the water you drink from the faucet or the water, you take a shower with, they all hold frequency. So we take it out all the bad frequencies. But then we add in with a Scio type machine or scalar wave machine frequencies for lowering the anxiety even more or in, in closing an improvement in your connection with your higher self or Christ consciousness. Sara (16m 15s): So that would be an example for the gold. For this silver, we boost the immune system. It helps with devitalizing foreign packagings, like viruses and bacteria and that sort of thing. So that would be an example. And then, you know, there’s, the whole line of supplements are all frequency enhanced. And with the, you know, there’s other ways to deal with the frequency, energy and medicine, there’s a, you know, bigger P E M F machines that and their post electric magnetic field machines that pretty much puts your body back into homeostasis. Sara (17m 2s): And then there’s also frequency patches. And all of this can be found at Accelerated Health products. I, I dive into the science behind it and explaining how it all works, but the patches can help your body do something just by through photo therapy and they turn on your stem cells. So that’s another example. Brad (17m 29s): Yeah. I realize there’s probably a lot of disbelievers and naysayers out there because this is definitely off the beaten track. And that’s why I like some of these amazing examples. I don’t know who sent me the experiment with the guy who had the three different glasses of rice, right. With the water. And one of the glasses he yelled at for weeks, the other ones he didn’t pay attention to. And the third one, he said, nice things to it. And you can see like the one, the one glasses full of black moldy rice and the other one’s thriving and the other one’s got like in between. It’s, it’s pretty amazing to open your eyes to it. Brad (18m 8s): I guess a health crisis would be a really big reason for you to, to plunge deeply into this stuff and try it out. And then when it works, oh my gosh, you become an evangelist. But you know, how do you get people kind of over that hump where I’m sure you interact with people in your daily life who think you’re up to, you know, goofy stuff. And you’re the, the witch’s brew lady down the street, but is there kind of a strategy that you have, or do you just wait for people who are interested to, to come forth? Or how does that work when you get challenged? Sara (18m 43s): It’s really interesting because you know, my, my referral base is huge because anyone who tries some of my supplements, they always come back and they come back with at least four friends. But what I started doing this last year, Brad, is actually group coaching and the group coaching is free. And why am I doing that? Because when someone’s educated and they understand the way things work and they would understand the way their body works, they’re in and they want to feel better. And I was laughing because last Monday, a good friend of mine, and you know how it’s always hard to work with your friends, but this couple started to do my ascent diet cleanse, which takes you through, you know, gets you, switches you into ketosis, puts you on a cleanse, does a full liver flush where you’re seeing the liver stones and the gallstones in the toilet all within 30 days. Sara (19m 41s): But you’re not starving. You’re eating real food, animal protein, everything that you know, you’re not on a juice cleanse. Anyways, the man, the husband was extremely skeptical and he said, well, Sara, am I not allowed to eat my oatmeal? What, how am I supposed to not eat six meals a day? And I said, just trust me with my supplements and the way you’re doing this and what you’re going to learn. You’re not going to be hungry. And you’re going to feel great. Day one. So three weeks in, he hasn’t really said much over the last three weeks. And last Monday I go, how are you doing? I was a little nervous to even ask. He goes, are you kidding me? I’ve lost 19 pounds in three weeks. Sara (20m 22s): And my energy is through the roof. I’ve never felt better. So it’s the education. And then it’s the referral. And people now more than ever are actually wanting natural solutions. And you know, people have heard of colloidal silver. They’ve heard of colloidal gold or ketone supplement or detox. And, and most people don’t to do the juice cleanses. Cause they, you get hangry and they don’t work. Right? So when I’m offering something that is, you know, you’re not hungry, you feel good, your energy’s good. Sara (21m 2s): It’s boosting your immune system. It’s helping with anxiety, brain fog and reducing any risk of brain diseases like Alzheimer’s and dementia. And all of these things are put together. They get it, all the pieces kind of come together. And I always tell my clients, it’s not just one magic bullet. You’ve got to do everything. And I know you talk about the importance of sleep, which I talk about. The importance of just meditation or some balance with that part of your life. Exercise, but not too much, listen to your body. And you being a man versus me being a woman in perimenopause. Sara (21m 42s): You know, I have a lot of women over 40 that, that they need to realize that their hormones are different. How do we, how do we fix our hormones? Well, the most amazing thing is, is through supplementation or the right kind of exercises, not chronic cardio, like you’ve talked about and incorporating carbs in the right time of the month. All of these tools are tools to get people over that hump and the troubleshooting. So the coaching really is helpful for a lot of people. That’s what I found and the supplements, get them over that hump where they’re like, God, I’m feeling good. Sara (22m 23s): Now I can do this right. Instead of Monday morning saying, oh God, I was so bad this weekend, I’m going to go on a diet. And then by three in the afternoon, they’re hangry. They’ve got a headache. They want to hit their husband when they go home and they give up and they’re into the wine and the chocolate cake, right? So, you know, that’s not what this is. And people are feeling great. Constant energy that’s even, they’re feeling like their relationships are getting better. I have people all the time saying this is really strange. I just got rid of a really toxic relationship in my life, right? Sara (23m 5s): So you’re, you’re cleaning out your body. You’re cleaning out your friends or you’re cleaning out and you’re starting to extract through frequency of the right people in your life and what you’re meant to do in life. It’s all this then. Oh my gosh, I’ve got all this energy now to do, to find my higher purpose in life. And that’s really what I’m here to do because I want to reach as many people as I can and help as many people to do what their purpose on earth is. Brad (23m 37s): Very nice. I want to talk more about hormones, cause I know you have a lot of expertise in that area, but first your, your initial foray, it told you that you were full of toxic heavy metals. And I’m wondering how you think that happened to you. Was it your environment, your upbringing, you know, breathing the smog. I remember getting a blood test from Nourish Balance Thrive and I had petroleum byproducts and plastic byproducts running around in my bloodstream, Mr. Clean, healthy guy who, you know, eats pretty well and, and tries to take care of himself. And there was some speculation that the petroleum was like leftover from me growing up in the San Fernando Valley and breathing smog every day, horrible smog back in the eighties. Brad (24m 19s): And then the plastic was possibly from consuming a lot of those disposable plastic water bottles, especially if they’d been heated up in my car. And then maybe the next day, it’s still there in the morning and I drink it. And boy, that was a real eye-opener to think that, you know, these poisons are circulating around. When you think you’re you think you’re healthy and you’ve done, you’re done. You’re good cleaning. Sara (24m 44s): Well, Brad, I never thought anything about cleaning supplies, detergents, what I was washing my dishes with, what I was drinking out of, but on top of all of that ever since I was born. So, and even to this day, 45 years, I lived near an airport that is in the airplanes are flying overhead. And my husband has to wash off our patio on a weekly basis. And the black soot that we are seeing is just awful. So that, and then I had some dental fillings, of course, for the mercury. When I say my levels were off the charts, they were off the charts. Sara (25m 24s): And for anyone who goes through a detox of heavy metals, your levels are going to get worse before they get better. Because as your key lading and pulling them out, they’re coming out of your tissues and into your bloodstream to get out of the body. So one thing that I’ve really dove into is how do you detox from heavy metals and radiation? And because as we’re going to talk about hormones, what are the two things that are causing infertility? Blood sugar or insulin resistance and toxicity. Those two things. And those two things pretty much account for most chronic diseases. Sara (26m 4s): So as we are detoxing, it is really important to get the stuff out, but soak it up and not overburden your kidneys and your liver cause our livers and kidneys, we’re not meant to detox with they’re detoxing today. So what I’ve done is I’ve come up with some supplements, scalar enhanced. Of course I had iodine is super important for detoxing, the thyroid, detoxing every spell in the body, but also feeding the body. The amount of iodine that we’re meant to have. Most iodine is actually toxic. And that’s why people are very careful about taking iodine, but they accelerate dine that I have is mano atomic, meaning it’s one single atom of iodine. Sara (26m 51s): It’s a hundred percent bioavailable. And then it’s scalar charged to detox the cells from heavy metals and radiation. So you start slow because you’re going to be kicking out those heavy metals and radiation in addition to feeding the thyroid and the other cells with that needed iodine. Our diet does not have the iodine we need. And then there’s a supplement called Nuke No More that goes in and zeroes out all non-ionizing and ionizing radiation. And when we talk about what we’re dealing with today, I mean, here we are on zoom on, on, in front of computers. I’ve got my cell phone to my left, right? Sara (27m 31s): We’ve got all of this radiation, whether we’re flying or not, and it’s scrambling our DNA with frequencies. And that’s another example of frequencies in 5G is here. So what is that doing to our brain, our fertility, our cancer risks, all of that? So between the accelerated silver, the accelerate iodine, the Nuke No More. And then the detox powder, you are detoxing your body of the heavy metals and the radiation, but the detox powder at the end soaks everything up and passes it through your system gently. So your liver and your kidneys are not working so hard and it really helps keep us going in such a horrific environment, unless you are living out in the, in the mountains of Montana and hiking every day, which someday I’m hoping to do, but we’re all bombarded. Sara (28m 29s): I’ve got the planes overhead. I’ve got my three kids last year. We’re all on zoom. And we’re all just being bombarded by the frequencies in the house, the wifi that we’re all being exposed to. And that’s really a tough thing. So it’s not even just the heavy metals, but now it’s the radiation that we’re all being bombarded with. Brad (28m 51s): So the airplanes flying overhead are actually polluting the environment and in a big scale, all surrounding? Sara (28m 59s): Yeah. Oh yeah. It’s really, it’s really unfortunate. And ever since I was born, the house I was born in was in the jet path and the house I moved to as an adult and a mom is in that same path and it’s, it’s awful. And it’s something that we go back and forth with all the time. And obviously it’s not healthy, but that would be one thing. But like you, as drinking out of plastic bottles, I was eating non-organic food. GMOs, Roundup was all on our food. And that’s something that I talk about on my blog and just all of it. It’s really difficult. Sara (29m 40s): It’s kind of like swimming upstream with all of the factors that we’re all exposed to nowadays. And those things are disrupting the fertility and the hormones. I know now I’m 45, but in my early thirties, late twenties, when most of my friends were trying to get pregnant, I’d warn friends needing fertility help than could actually get pregnant on their own. Brad (30m 7s): So at the, at the, at the baby shower, half of them are on the phone with the fertility doctor and the other half are with their boyfriend texting back and forth. Oh my goodness, that’s a horrible stat. I know some other stats reference from the MOFO mission. One of them is the, the sperm count is about 50% of just what it was a generation ago, the average per day camp, that was a study from Israel. And then we have a lot of research from around the world that the average male testosterone level is declining at a rate of around 1% a year. The average, not, not one person declining as they get older, but the average 26 year old, the average 36 year old, the average 56 year old from a generation or two generations ago, the research goes back to the eighties. Brad (30m 52s): We’re talking about being 40% lower in testosterone at the same age that your grandpa was back then. And that one’s, if, if you, if you’re going to be skeptical of some of these advanced strategies, like you promote with your supplements and on your show, I can understand a lot of people are steeped in the Western medicine protocol and all that, but we can’t ignore the stats. And so if we can’t ignore the stats, then we want to step up and say, well, what can I do about it? And then where then we’re opening up to two great shows like you. And I know the hormones are a big victim of this stuff. And what about the age groups? Brad (31m 34s): You’re, you’re referencing certain, certain things happening at certain ages. And that’s what we want to watch out for? Sara (31m 41s): Well, I’m seeing, like you’re saying my younger friends who are in their twenties definitely are having fertility issues, more women than not are having irregular cycles. But what I experienced with PCOS and when I went to the doctor and they diagnosed me with PCOS, and this was when I didn’t know much of anything, they said, oh, we have no idea why you have it. There was no dietary information, nothing, all they wanted to do was give me Clomid to get pregnant. That was their solution. And, and see you later. So what I now know, as soon as I cut the sugar and the carbs out of my diet and lowered my insulin, resistance, spam my, my periods, regular, my cycles, regular, I feel great in, and now as I’m 45 and entering perimenopause, it’s a huge jump in that. Sara (32m 40s): It’s not as bad as before. The cycles are great. And what I’m experiencing and hearing from my clients as well, is through my cleanse and through, you know, just adopting a more ketogenic diet in general, they are actually reversing aging and menopause. Women are actually seeing their cycles come back. Not that they necessarily want it, but it’s definitely showing that the body is recovering. It actually reverse aging. I really am. Now that I’m quote unquote healed of a lot of my issues, Brad, I’m no different than most women my age, where I want to anti age and live to 150. Sara (33m 23s): So I’m really into anti-aging and reversing the clock. And as some of the things that I’m doing, like the frequency patches that I mentioned earlier and using some of the frequency technology and also just the ketogenic diet and pills and lifestyle, I have actually seen my chronological age and keep going up obviously, but my biological age go backwards. So I am younger than I was a year ago, essentially. And I always laugh because I have two gray hairs. I’ve got family members, two sisters and a brother. Sara (34m 5s): They’re they’re, one’s younger ones, and two are older, and they all are dying their hair a lot more than I am. So I’m holding onto what I can for right now. And it’s, it’s, it’s definitely working and this stuff works. But Brad I’m like, I’m no different than I’m sure you who have tried so many things, right? We’ve tried every diet. We’ve tried the vegan diet, the vegetarian diet, the paleo diet, and I’ve even tried carnivore. And I now have to find my balance and something that I also am trying to teach my clients is that not every health food is healthy for you. Sara (34m 51s): And some foods that are healthy for me are, are poison to you. And we’ve, we’ve talked about that as well. Like when you talk about the plant and that’s something that I think people really need educated on, because they’ll think, okay, I’m going to do it this time. I’m going to get off the standard American diet and I’m going to go vegan, or I’m going to do celery juicing every morning. Well, that’s not the answer, right? Brad (35m 17s): That’s a tough one. And it is, I think we’re seeing more and more personalization necessary because these compelling stories are being presented. You mentioned the carnivore movement, and it turns out that there’s quite a few people that have extreme sensitivity to these natural plant toxins that are contained and otherwise universally, widely regarded super duper healthy foods like your kale salad and your green smoothies and things like that, that anyone would be giving a thumbs up to until looking a little bit more closely. But in your case, as you mentioned, all those things that you’ve tried, maybe you can provide some details about what kind of rhythm works for you, whether it’s the, the fasting, are you really tightly regulating that carb intake under 50 grams as a, as a hard and fast rule that’s going to work for you longterm or where’s your where’s your rhythm these days? Sara (36m 16s): So it’s no, it’s no question that I’m a type A personality. And it’s no question that it’s, if something’s good, then a lot better. And that’s something that I have to fight. And after I’ve learned my lesson, because when I first started doing keto and fasting, I thought, well, I’m going to go all day long every single day and just do one meal a day. I love going one meal a day. I am so productive. I can get so much during the day. And I eat a great big meal and feel great. Well, what I found and I was, and I was sticking to very low carb under 20 grams. And that’s great. I think it’s great for people in the first 30 to 60 days, depending on how insulin resistant they are. Sara (37m 4s): But what I found was I actually started feeling better when I incorporated the healthy carbs at night and my workouts were better. The next morning I had more energy. I felt like it helped my hormones as well. And what we did as a family a year ago is that we got our DNA tested because my kids were eating very low carb, high fat, and they weren’t thriving. Not all of them were thriving. I had two of them that were thriving pretty well, but they had certain issues, but one that wasn’t at all. And what we’ve found, Brad, is out of all, five of us, all five of us had a different profile of foods that we should eat. Sara (37m 48s): And my one daughter, she could not do a ketogenic diet. Now all of us are eating whole foods, you know, staying off the process foods. There were certain vegetables that each one of us couldn’t eat. The oxalates for insulin, for instance. You know, you’ve got your spinach and your almonds, your beans, your nuts. Oh my gosh. Do you know how many almonds that we would use to go through? I’ve got a, I’ve got an 18 year old boy that needs to pack on the calories. And nuts are a great thing for, for someone like that. And when he was told he can’t have any almonds because of the oxalates, it was like, okay, now what? Sara (38m 29s): So, and then I’ve got me and my, my other daughter who had an issue with that absorption. So here I am doing a ketogenic diet, but I have a hard time digesting fat. What am I to do? I stick to a high protein diet. I do my accelerated keto pills to help me with energy and fasting. And I’ll either go one meal a day, or I’ll do the two meals a day. I go back and forth. I, I really listen to my body, whereas before I would just do it the way I was supposed to do it. But now I’m really listening to my body. I eat a high protein animal protein diet based on wild meat, like bison, lamb, elk, deer, wild fish. Sara (39m 16s): I stay away from chicken because chicken has amyloid proteins, which don’t break down in the body. And then they get deposited in the brain. And that’s what the amyloid plaques you hear about with Alzheimers and dementia. So we stick away and we stay away from chicken. We stay away from conventional beef if we can, but we really focus on the wild animal proteins. And that’s where I feel best. I can eat a ton of animal protein and feel great. Do I add a lot of extra fat to my food? No. I stick to certain vegetables. The oxalates, I stay away from. The sulfur vegetables. Sara (39m 57s): I used to eat them every day. And those are the cabbage, the broccoli, the bok choy, the cauliflower, very ketogenic, low carb vegetables, right? They were horrible for me. It made me super bloated. They backed up my sulfur pathways. I don’t have a sulfur detoxification pathway. And so people say, well, how are you getting your nutrients? Well, I’m sure not getting any nutrients. If my stomach’s bloated and I have leaky gut, right? So I needed to heal my gut, get those things out of my body. Now I can have them intermittently because I’m healed, but I can’t tip that scale. Sara (40m 39s): Once you hit that tipping point, you might have an issue. And then you’ve got the lectins. Well, what’s interesting is I was staying away from lectins for so many years. Cause I knew they were bad. But my body’s actually okay with them. So I eat them on a, on a, you know, on a moderate basis and the night Brad (40m 58s): Talking about in the lectins family that you stayed away from, but you’re actually okay. Sara (41m 4s): Cucumbers. zucchini, the squashes, all of those. I love eggplant. And I took that out of my diet. And now I was able to introduce it back in. I don’t need a lot of it, but just having it is definitely a treat. And then the night shades, just like with most night shades do have lectins as well, but I was staying away from those. And I’m actually okay. Eating those once in a while, but it’s really interesting. My one daughter was okay, eating nightshades and potatoes, and then she was eating them every single day. And now all of a sudden she’s not okay, but what’s great. Sara (41m 44s): Is that what it’s taught even my kids. Is that they’re learning to listen to their bodies. When my, when my daughter was having to lay on the couch after dinner to settle her stomach, I said, that’s not a good sign. She said, no, you’re right. I’m probably eating something that’s not meant for my body. So we always go back to the animal protein, the wild fish, and then play around with the vegetables on the side. Because as you know, I don’t need to tell you this, that animal protein has most of the nutrients that we’re trying to get from the vegetables in the first place. Brad (42m 24s): Yeah. That’s an interesting little biology lesson and kind of stuff that, you know, never really lodged in my brain for very long, over my entire lifetime, until you really drill down on that statement. And maybe you could elaborate a little bit from that, what you just said. Cause it’s, it’s pretty mind blowing when you think about it. Sara (42m 45s): Well, you, you talk about vitamin A.vitamin A you get from beef liver, right? The, and the muscle fibers in the collagen that’s in the animal protein. Everyone wants to stay young and get rid of their wrinkles. Collagen is found in your eye tissue. Your eye and your bones and your skin and your hair. I oh, Brad. Oh my goodness. I spent thousands of dollars on supplements to grow my hair. Thousands. Now with my supplements, with my carnivorish diets, with the stem cell patches, reversing aging, I’m not taking any of those hair supplements anymore. Sara (43m 30s): Now would I like three times more hair than I, then I have. Sure. But am I getting more results from what I’m doing now than the thousands of dollars of the hair supplements I was taking before? Yes, absolutely. So the animal proteins, you compare it to kale and blueberries. It blows those things out of the water. And like, I have to go back to the fact that if you’re bloated from, from your food, your body is not absorbing anything and go back to the blood underneath the microscope for my nine-year-old son, when we first saw those cancer cells, the cells that were not cancerous were completely nutritionally deficient. Sara (44m 14s): And at the time I was giving him his juice plus vitamins and having him take his vitamin well, those cells were all acidic and clumped together and completely nutritionally deficient because his cells weren’t open. One thing that we’re measuring black and white with my, my group cleanse the scent diet cleanse is something called phase angle. That is the permeability of the cells. That’s the ability of the cells to allow the toxins out and the nutrients in. And what we’re finding is there’s so much healing that’s going on just within that 30 days. Sara (44m 55s): That that’s that number for the cells’ pure permeability is increasing so quickly. We’ve never seen that with other technologies, machines, other ways to, to try to improve that number. It is going so well that now people can actually take in and absorb the nutrients that they’re taking in their body. Brad (45m 17s): Whew. I think you’re going back to that quote. You said that the, the, the high protein animal foods have the nutrients that we’re trying to get when we eat plant foods. And I’ve heard Paul Saladino described this really nicely, that, you know, we’ve always been told that carrots are high in beta carotene, which is great for your vitamin A levels. And beta carotene is a precursor to vitamin A which our body then proceeds to do a complex chain of chemical reactions, six to 21 times more sophisticated and involved than for example, consuming the fully formed source of vitamin A called retinol. That’s contained in very, very high levels in beef liver and in moderate levels in other animal products. Brad (46m 3s): And so you’re, you’re making this, this story here where if you eat enough carrots, you will hopefully prompt these complex chemical reactions that will give you the vitamin A that you need to thrive. Or you can, you know, just trump that with responsible consumption of the truly nutrient dense foods of the planet. So whoever you are and whatever your favorite dietary strategy is, if we just went into the laboratory and did a micro nutrient analysis of the retinol level in liver and the colon in the egg yolk versus whatever we’re trying to navigate through the plant kingdom. And I think of the, the grass fed cow out there, chowing down on, on grass all day, and then having that body and that biology work hard to give the cow the nice muscle that it needs, that we’re going to go eat for a steak that night. Brad (46m 53s): We’re kind of short circuiting, the complex chain of plant molecule reactions in the body and Denise Minger, who does great work with her website, Raw Food SOS and her book, Death by Food Pyramid. She talks about how there’s a good percentage of people that genetically don’t have the, the, the, the foundation to do a good job with these chemical reactions. And that’s a little disturbing because that means that no matter how many carrots you eat, you’re going to have a tough time converting that optimally. Sara (47m 26s): Yes, absolutely. And the other thing that no one’s realizing is a lot of the minerals that we’re after and the nutrients we’re after is found in a good quality salt. Well, what goes better with a carnivore diet than a salt and or good minerals. And I really dove into the fact that we come from seawater, right? The sea water has all of the minerals, and it’s exactly the same composition as our blood plasma. And what you do is by taking a supplement called ketone, and you can find this on Accelerated Health Products as well. Sara (48m 6s): It’s the exact composition of all the minerals. So you’re getting all of that in the way your body’s needing it. And the accelerated ancient salt that I have as well has all of those minerals as well. And it’s not like iodized salt, that where sodium is, it’s only sodium and full of microplastics, and all of the nutrients are stripped out of that table salt. So that’s another way people can naturally get their mineral and electrolyte balance that we’re searching for through our juicing and our vegan diets that are not doing much. Sara (48m 46s): I don’t know about you, Brad, but every vegan I know they think to themselves, well, it’s gotta be good for me. That’s what they tell me. It’s all vegetables, but they’re all tired. They actually all are insulin resistant. They’re the ones having hormonal issues, whether it’s extreme menopause symptoms or fertility issues. And they don’t know why. I just have a friend that is partially vegan and she did this soup cleanse, and she goes there. I’ve never felt worse. And I started laughing and going, well, that’s not what it’s meant to be about, right? Brad (49m 26s): Oh, mercy. I mean, whoever you are, and however, strong your fixed and rigid beliefs are, and your convictions, if you are suffering in any way or feel less than optimal, you owe it to yourself to maintain an open mind and think critically and be open to new information. And I put myself up as my favorite example, because, you know, I’ve been talking about ancestral health for a long time. I’m really deep into it. I’m pretty good spokesperson for the primal paleo way of life, where we’re eating these wonderful, colorful plates where most of it is vegetables and produce and all the foods of the earth. And then of course, we’re going to have the, the well sourced and sustainably sourced animal products too, but I was sort of blindsided by the emergence of the carnivore movement, where there’s this possibility that these wonderful, colorful, bulky products that make the, the, the, the bulk of our diet, you know, th the, the volume of our diet might not be necessary. Brad (50m 23s): And not only that, they might be unhealthy to certain people. And boy, I I’m really pleased that I was able to integrate this new information and sit down and breathe for a moment and listen, rather than just forge ahead and turn up the volume on my microphone to, you know, counter anything that wasn’t along the pre-existing party line. And if, you know, if anyone out there is dealing with nagging autoimmune or inflammatory conditions, or opening up their medicine cabinet, and you see a bunch of prescription drugs in there, my main man, Dr. Phil, Maffetone one of the great coaches in the endurance scene for decades. He contends that any prescription, he doesn’t even care what it is, what it, what is the name of it? Brad (51m 4s): It doesn’t matter if it’s in one of those, you know, pink bottles, it is affecting your ability to perform aerobically, and you should lower your heart rate accordingly if you’re under any medication. And we kind of negate the, the massive side effects that these things have same with the constant access to electromagnetic exposure with wifi and all the other things, and just soldier along. I think maybe a lot of us have our fingers crossed, hoping that we’re not going to become, you know, an extreme victim. That’s going to lose our health or have have problems with our, our children. It’s, you know, it’s pretty, pretty difficult story to even listen to you recount again, because you know that that’s a rough time for a mom. Brad (51m 49s): I can’t imagine anything worse, but boy did to open our eyes. And I think you did a good job today, like coming in and bring in bringing an alternative perspective. Maybe those who are interested and open-minded will check out Accelerated Health Radio, Accelerated Health Products, but it it’s been a blast. And before you go, I wanted to ask you that one little tidbit where you said that you discovered that adding a little more carbs back into the diet in the evening was working for you. If you’re watching on YouTube, you can see that Sara does not need to drop excess body fat. So she’s in that healthy category with the, the veins popping out of her biceps, put in some time in, at the gym there, but what kind of carbs work for you and how has that pattern worked, where you’re, it sounds like you’re timing them particularly to have those days of being fasted or having low carb intake and then kind of replenishing at night, which is something that Ben Greenfield has found to be effective as well. Sara (52m 44s): What I’ve found is the accelerated keto, I take in the morning to kick me into ketosis. And so I’m riding the waves throughout the day in that key to a state of ketosis, getting that amazing brain energy, physical energy. My workouts are in the morning fasted. I hydrate with my ketone and my water and all of that. But then at night I have my, my animal protein, maybe some vegetables, but usually it’s, it’s fruit, it’s berries or grapefruit or apple or mango. I’m not a big potato person. So I it’s not necessarily that I never really liked rice. Sara (53m 25s): So I’m more of a fruit person with carbs. And I like something sweet to tell I, you know, to finish my day off. And that’s kind of a nice balance that I’ve found right now. I don’t do well with gluten. I can’t. So I have to stay away from all of that. So that’s kind of my pattern and, and it feels good. It is my body’s responding sometimes depending on the, the timing of the month, I don’t have it. And sometimes I have more than, you know, normal more, maybe even up to 200 grams a night, depending on what I’m feeling. And it’s, I’m really learning to listen to my body. Sara (54m 6s): And that’s what I’m really trying to teach my clients to, to become their own doctor. And now more than ever bred people are wanting control. Everything’s out of our control in this world at the moment. So just to be able to be in control, especially if your health is something that I’m trying to teach people so that they are now feeling better, the fear’s gone, they can move forward. Brad (54m 33s): Sara Banta killing it. Everybody. As we promised at the start, tell us how to connect with you. Sara (54m 45s): I’m on Instagram and facebook@acceleratedhealthproducts and my website is acceleratedhealthproducts.com. Is the easiest way to find me in all of my blogs and health articles, my newsletters. I really try and give you valuable, valuable information through that. And you can DM me, or you can email me through the website. I’m happy to put together personalized protocol for anybody and let you know how I can help you. Brad (55m 11s): Thank you everybody for listening. Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions, and questions for the Q and A shows, subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. Brad (55m 58s): It helps raise the profile of the be read podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.Rad.

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It’s no secret by now that the topic of testosterone optimization is something I have much personal interest in after sharing how I was able to double my testosterone naturally by making serious adjustments to my approach to exercise

Because testosterone is the ultimate male hormone (integral to not only physical power and endurance but also optimum cognitive function and emotional stability), maintaining healthy testosterone production is the ultimate way to preserve your male essence. But hectic modern life simply makes it increasingly difficult to do so, so we must always make a big effort to do everything we can to counteract this. Exercise is one of the best ways to boost testosterone, however, adhering to a pattern of intense effort in your exercise routine is also the easiest way to tank it—from prolonged recovery time to a decline in hormone status, it’s just not worth it.

So what’s a MOFO to do when you want to keep implementing effective anti-aging workouts into your exercise routine, but you don’t want to burn out and cause your testosterone levels to plummet? 

The first, unavoidable step, is examining your daily routine and getting honest with yourself about the amount of movement you’re really getting throughout the day. Make it a priority to avoid sitting—Dr. Joan Vernikos, former director of NASA’s Life Sciences Division, who authored the book, Sitting Kills, Moving Heals, has said that people were not designed to sit, and the human body is “a perpetual motion machine.” Another important thing to implement (if you haven’t already) is the inclusion of micro workouts throughout your day. This is important because it’s a great way of counteracting the consequences that come from sitting too much, as microworkouts boost both your metabolism and your cognitive function. 

The next, non-negotiable step is to move around every day. Try not to overthink this: it merely means low level movement like JFW (just f*ing ing walk!), dynamic stretches, having a morning flexibility/mobility routine (this has been an absolutely life changing practice for me), more formal practices (think yoga, pilates, tai chi), climbing stairs, and like I’ve mentioned many times before, weaving in micro-workouts throughout the day (practicing ballet moves is also a great option if you want to switch it up, or if you happen to have a background or interest in dance!). General everyday movement is key because it affects all aspects of health, including cognitive and immune function, as well as how your body metabolizes fat. When you don’t feel like moving around, just remember this: movement is the essence of human existence! Sit for just 20 minutes, and you’ll see a decrease in glucose tolerance. It’s that effective, and it happens that quickly.

We don’t have to completely toss cardio out the window, but it does need to be reframed and restructured. Consider mixing it up by taking inspiration from my Jogging 2.0 video to see how I integrate movements that incorporate balance, flexibility, mobility, and explosiveness into my routine. Another fantastic workout that you probably don’t think of often is skipping, so check out my 10 Ways to Skip video. And most importantly, remember that steady state cardio is straight-up unnecessary. You don’t need to get out there and burn calories to stay lean (listen to Dr. Herman Pontzer’s explanation of why here), because it ultimately does not matter that much—cardiovascular training effects can be had from nearly anything, even a comfortable walk around the block. But, if you absolutely insist on doing steady state cardio, please do yourself a favor and be sure to do it according to Dr. Phil Maffetone’s “180 minus age” formula, where you calculate your aerobic maximum heart rate to be 180 minus age in beats per minute.

The Best Exercises To Boost Testosterone: 

Regular resistance training. This is one of the ultimate anti-aging practices for maintaining muscle mass as you age. Engaging in regular resistance training means putting your body under resistance load, ideally with sweeping full body functional movements, like squats, deadlifts, pull-ups, pushups. This is key because these movements recruit major muscle groups, and something I’ve talked about on the show before is how being able to squat is strongly associated with your longevity potential. Since the whole idea is to set yourself up for longevity through your lifestyle choices, I also recommend focusing on the lower body compound movements, such as squats and deadlifts. This is because there is greater androgen receptor density in your legs, which ensures that you will receive a better hormone boost when performing heavy-duty legwork. There’s also been compelling research recently about holding a bar in your workouts, so I’ve been doing that recently, as it’s pretty fun and also believed to stimulate androgen receptor site activation, which means you’re going to be producing more testosterone and improving your testosterone status through this kind of exercise.

When it comes to training, I love this concept of working out until you experience “technical failure.” This means when you start to notice some time into your workout that maybe your technique is getting a little bit flawed, that it has started to crack a little bit, and this realization is the moment you put the weight down. It is your body signaling you to move on: either to the next step in your routine, or to just stop altogether. I have found it hugely helpful to frame training this way: that it’s not all about just working toward increasing your reps or adding weight, but that the real goal to aim for is to be technically precise at everything you do.

Variable resistance training. I’ve become a big fan of this method recently after speaking with John Jaquish, the inventor of the X-3 bar, about how there have been some really great scientifically validated claims about how weightlifting is a waste of time (which also happens to be the title of John’s book). His book offers a lot of really compelling information about this concept of variable resistance training, and if you want to learn more about the benefits, click here to listen to our conversation, Smashing Fitness Falsehoods, Getting Super Ripped Without Weights, and Pushing the Extremes of Healthy Living.

All-out maximum effort sprints. Not only do sprints offer wonderful benefits such as fat reduction and increasing bone density, they are the centerpiece of healthy male hormone status. But, they have to be done properly so you don’t experience any of the adverse effects that come with overtraining. Ben Greefield suggests a 6 second sprint if you really want to increase your testosterone, as a 6 second sprint will burn pure ATP in the muscle cell. 

If you are new to performing running sprints, then work your way up—aiming towards the goal of doing high-impact running sprinting, and remember of course, that any explosive effort does count as a sprint workout. Kettlebell swings even count as a sprint workout! You can swing for 10 seconds of maximum effort and then take a long recovery period, then swing for 10 more seconds, and take another long rest period, etc. Another fantastic option for either low or no impact sprinting can be had even by rowing or getting on a stationary bike, and putting all your effort in for 10 or 20 seconds, taking a long break, going again, then taking another generous recovery period, and so on. Jumping drills are also a fantastic way of getting in a sprint workout, so check out my YouTube video to see me demonstrate these movements.

When it comes to my own routine, I’m still a work in progress. I have definitely learned the hard way (unfortunately many times!) about overdoing it during exciting sprinting and jumping workouts. But when you absolutely love to get out to the track and work hard, it can be a seriously tough pill to swallow when you realize the next day that your calves are blown out, and before you know it, you find yourself crashing out for an afternoon nap. What I found was, if I ended up doing 21 full high jump approaches, I would realize later on, Oops, maybe 12 might have been a better idea…. Perhaps you too have had the same “weekend warrior” type of experience where you realize after that not only did you go too hard, but now you have to recover from breakdown and muscle exhaustion? 

If you need any help remembering or recognizing when it is time to stop your workouts, think of it this way: The 3 T’s: Tightness, Tiredness, or Technique breakdown. Also, never attempt any complex, explosive, or resistance movement when feeling fatigued. If you are someone who experiences excessive or chronic muscle soreness, it’s important to know that this is a sign of overdoing it. It is pro-aging, rather than anti-aging. This is because overtraining is a depleting practice that is considerably exhausting for your body, especially when made into a consistent routine. Throw in the fact that it also leads to a chronic overproduction of stress hormones, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Ultimately, we can all benefit from taking a kinder and gentler approach to fitness and the way we treat our bodies. Because of the experiences I’ve had with this, I have been making a serious effort to back off a bit and leave something in the tank every time. Try it and see for yourself how big of a difference it makes: your explosive efforts combined with other, gentler exercises will still leave you pleasantly fatigued, but also feeling alert, enthusiastic, and satisfied after. The most important takeaway is to keep it simple: bust out some quality workouts, and then end your session before form breakdown, exhaustion, and depletion take hold. It may take some time to get used to the idea that leaving a little in the tank at every session is ideal, but it’s important because you don’t want to get stuck in a pattern of overdoing it, even by a little.

The Importance of The Cool Down. 

Post-workout, gradually returning your body to homeostasis is the goal. You don’t want to abruptly stop a workout because that causes your body to experience a buildup of fluid accumulation of toxins in the bloodstream, because your lymphatic system and blood circulation haven’t had enough time to take your body gradually back down to a rested state. Cooling down minimizes the stress impact of your workout, as opposed to making the workout more stressful than it should be. Make sure to bookend your workouts with a really gentle and prolonged elaborate warmup, as well as a gentle, prolonged, elaborate cool-down. This is truly the best and most effective way of engaging in this life-changing fitness objective of doing proper, maximum intensity sprint workouts.

If you want to learn more about how I went from being in the hypo category for testosterone levels to being in the 95% percentile—doubling my free testosterone—all by simply toning down workout stress levels, read my article, How I Doubled My Testosterone Naturally By Minimizing Workout Stress. What I discovered through this process was as soon as I switched to slower workouts, adding sprinting and variation to my daily jog with my dog, all kinds of new growth pathways opened up. It’s a new, enjoyable, sustainable way of approaching workouts: with enthusiasm and an appreciation for simply doing something cool, such as increased competency for new challenges like the Drinking Bird move or explosive efforts like one-legged hopping.

I should also add that the frequency of testosterone testing cannot be underestimated either: levels can vary significantly depending on recent lifestyle changes like emotional stress, overtraining, and lack of sleep, or even the day or time, so get tested frequently and evaluate trends in your numbers. Finally, it’s really important to strive not just for the average number, but way beyond that. This is because testosterone levels are so low these days—we know from research conducted worldwide that globally, the average male testosterone level has declined by 1% annually since the 1980s! This tells us that clearly, the “average” is too low to even consider as a healthy number, so aim high! Aside from that, just prioritize keeping your workout routine varied and interesting, get out there, kick some butt, and have fun!

Today’s episode centers around essential but simple, actionable insights we can all easily integrate into our busy, everyday lives in order to optimize our life and state of health.

One primary focus in this show is highlighting the importance of cultivating (and improving) our morning and evening rituals and habits to optimize all aspects of our health, especially sleep. You’ll learn about how seasonal changes alter the amount of sleep your body needs per night, the science behind why keeping your bedroom clean, sparse, and uncluttered actually leads to better sleep, and why 60 – 68 degrees Fahrenheit is the ideal temperature for your sleeping environment.

You’ll also learn why it’s important to still go outside even on cloudy, overcast days, the adverse health consequences that come with prolonged periods of sitting/stillness, and the reason why our brains actually require downtime for optimal function.

TIMESTAMPS:

Getting the optimal hours of sleep is the basis of everything else in a healthy lifestyle. Have a slow-down ritual to prepare for bedtime. [02:26]

The consumption of food is best in the daytime and your sleep environment should be dark and cool. [08:20]

After a good night’s sleep, we are ready for a high-energy morning, up with the sun. [10:30]

Move more. Avoid long periods of sitting. [14:56]

Reduce stress by meditating, doing yoga, taking a nap, and spending time outdoors. Learning to quiet the mind is a challenge in today’s world. [19:33]

It is important to socialize. Put your phone down and talk to people. [24:15]

Eat real food. Eliminate refined sugars, grains, and industrial seed oils. [25:55]

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (1m 42s): Hey listeners, let’s call this breather show back to basics with important insights from some of my favorite shows and favorite notes of things that never made it onto shows. We’ll just jump from one important topic to another. But the theme is going to be simple, actionable insights, not getting too complex or deep into the scientific rationale. Just a takeaways because we’re so busy. We can all use the reminder if some of this information is review or familiar, but I love listening to people hitting the same themes, especially about peak performance and focus and things that I struggle with in today’s day and age of constant potential for distraction. Brad (2m 26s): Hyper-connectivity all that stuff. So I’m going to hit that a little bit here, but the first thing I’m looking at is my notes from the great shows from Dr. Tommy Wood. One of my favorite overall big picture, simple, sensible reasonable players in the progressive healthy ancestral health scene. He’s a physician specializing in pediatric brain research at University of Washington and doing his best to live the healthy, happy fit life with his wife. Also a medical research professional up there, and his two epic boxer dogs, some of the greatest animals I’ve ever seen. Brad (3m 6s): But Tommy was really good at pulling out some of the, the basic big picture insights, even though he’s steeped in the science and extremely detailed and knowledgeable about all matters of healthy living. He offered up this top five simple ideas to achieve optimal health and, and number one for him was sleep enough. This has to be number one and everything else flows downstream from getting adequate sleep. I believe that if we focus on our evening habits and rituals, we can go great lengths to improving this often overlooked or lip service topic. Brad (3m 46s): So we all know this is important. We’ve all read the articles there and listened to the experts. Talk about how we need to sleep a certain number of hours a night, which I think when you quoting a number it’s kind of an oversimplification of the big picture of how to sleep optimally. There’s probably a sensibility to say that most of us need between seven and eight and a half hours a night. I also love the insight from one of my favorite books on the subject called Lights Out, Sleep, Sugar and Survival, where they talk about the seasonal variation in your sleep needs, your optimal sleep patterns. And so in the winter, we require more sleep because the days are shorter. Brad (4m 29s): There’s more periods of darkness and darkness is strongly calibrated with our circadian rhythm to wind the brain and the body down and get more rest. So we have a natural tendency to be less active, maybe dialing back our fitness goals and our fitness regimen in the winter, resting more, spending more time in the dark asleep. And then in the summer, because of the longer days and the more light hitting our brains, we have a natural tendency to be more active, even things like consuming more carbohydrates. Naturally we can process those better in the summer. All part of the evolutionary example and accordingly optimal sleep from the authors of Lights Out. Brad (5m 11s): They contend that eight hours is probably a good, optimal goal in the summertime, the long days, and then increasing that to nine and a half hours for most people in the winter. And I realized that because we have the ability to light up our indoor environment and live in an artificially lit world year round, that we don’t have as much seasonal variation as the ancestral evolutionary example. But the more we can correct the more we can get in close harmony with our circadian rhythm, governing our metabolic biological functions by the rising and setting of the sun, the healthier we can get, because we have so many major offenses to circadian function these days. Brad (5m 55s): So what that means is when it gets dark in your environment, whatever time of year, wherever you live, if you live near the equator, it’s, I’m going to be much of a big deal. It gets dark at 5:30 in the winter and 6:30 in the summer, right? But if you in the Northern latitudes, like, like a great percentage of the population does these days, we’re talking about a huge variation, meaning a huge variation in your sleeping patterns. And so when it gets dark, let’s do a little cue here to honor the sunset, respect the sunset, much respect going out to the sunset and just kind of think in the back of your mind, this is the initiation of wind down time. I know that’s cramp your style in Stockholm, Sweden, when it gets dark at 3:42 PM or what have you, but it’s just a little cue that you don’t want to go and do a crazy workout in darkness. Brad (6m 45s): You don’t want to have giant meals. You don’t want to have incredible high stimulatory festivities, and the more you can wind down as it gets closer and closer to your desired bedtime, the healthier you’re going to be. So another goal would be to prioritize that final hour before it’s lights out to calming mellowing activities. Arianna Huffington does a great job in her book, The Sleep Revolution, talking about the wonderful benefits of an evening ritual, where now it’s time to take a bath and pour the soap bubbles in, and you read a relaxing reading, like a leisure reading in the bathtub, get out, change into your pajamas. This is all cues to the brain to trigger a graceful transition from wakefulness to sleepiness. Brad (7m 30s): And we want that melatonin to start flooding the bloodstream in the hours after dark, it’s called dim light melatonin onset. D L M O. It’s a very strong genetically programmed function where the hormone melatonin starts to rise in the bloodstream. It’s known as the sleepiness hormone, but it does a lot more than that. And once it’s in there, you’re going to start having, you know, a slower brain function, a calming relaxing of the central nervous system and other metabolic functions, reduced heart rate, blood pressure, stress hormone function, and ease into a nice, graceful, and efficient period of sleep. But if you interrupt that with a crazy workout in the evening at the gym, with the rock music blaring into your earphones, or of course some of the stuff is allowed, you’re going to go have fun and have an evening of celebration. Brad (8m 20s): That’s going to be a departure from your standard routine. So I’m not saying live like an aesthetic and a, it turned out all the lights when it gets dark and read a book. Boring, boring, but just keep that idea in mind that we want to start winding things down in general, after dark, especially when it comes to eating meals. There’s so much good research on time-restricted feeding and the adverse effects of consuming a significant amount of calories after dark. I know that’s tough to get around, especially in the winter time, but we want to do the best we can to prioritize caloric intake during the well lit hours of the day. And so if you can have these wind down periods at night and then have an optimal sleeping environment, along with the behaviors, the environment is going to be your bedroom. Brad (9m 7s): We want that to be dark cool between 60 and 68 Fahrenheit and completely free of distraction. So there’s no screens, no TVs allowed charge your devices outside of the room, if at all possible, and just keep it simple, spartan, no clutter, no things that are going to provoke a, a stress response because science shows that even looking at a pile of clutter or an unfinished home improvement project in the corner, or having your work desk situated in your master bedroom, all these things are going to be a negative point score. We want a nice, peaceful, simple sleeping environment and achieving total darkness is super important for the sleep hormones. Brad (9m 50s): I did a great show on Dr. Jack Kruse’s article about the checkpoints in the 24 hour circadian rhythm and the hormonal processes that are occurring. So you can listen to that great show where he talks about the best time to exercise, the best time to have sex, the best time to do important high cognitive work. And 12 to 3:00 AM is the time when human growth hormone and other adaptive and restorative body functions really kick into high gear, but they require and are very, very sensitive to light and dark. So they require total darkness to come out and play and repair your brain, repair your muscles, repair all the metabolic functions in your body. Brad (10m 30s): And so we want to have that dark sleeping environment, get a good night’s sleep. And then in hand in hand with our evening sleep patterns, we want to have these high energy high activity mornings where we’re up near sunrise and immediately exposing our eyeballs to direct exposure to sun. I’m not saying staring at the fiery orb that rises in the sky. That’s not a smart idea at any time, but having unfiltered exposure. So not through glass or not through sunglasses, but getting as much natural light as possible into your central nervous system. It’s called the SCN. Brad (11m 11s): Is the receptor of light, the super charismatic nucleus located or sending messages to the hypothalamus through your retina. And boy, when you tell yourself it’s light, when you experienced the lighting of the earth, another day, all kinds of wonderful hormonal processes kick into play a downregulation of melatonin in favor of a rise in the mood-elevating hormone of serotonin. We also get a downregulation of adenosine or a blocking of adenosine. The same thing that caffeine does the sunlight will do if you expose your eyes to direct sunlight in the morning. And adenosine is a neurotransmitter that builds and builds and builds over the course of the day. Brad (11m 52s): And when it goes in high levels, that also contributes to your sleepiness in the evening. That’s why caffeine is so powerful as an energizer because it blocks adenosine, allowing you to feel alert and energized. But getting morning sunlight exposure is superior to a drink of coffee because it also has other consequential effects, including promoting the rise in serotonin the desirable rise in cortisol, the prominent stress hormone that we talk about a lot in a negative context. When we talk about an overly stressful lifestyle, too much cortisol production, but in the morning you want that adaptive and desirable spike in cortisol at rise in serotonin, decline in melatonin, consequently, because serotonin is a precursor to melatonin and then the lowering of adenosine. Brad (12m 43s): So you feel alert and energized. That’s why I’m so enthusiastic about my morning energizing routine, the flexibility, mobility leg, and core strengthening routine that I do every single day immediately upon awakening, always with a direct exposure to sunlight in the winter months, I’m also getting some adaptive cold exposure, cause I’ll go and do that thing outdoors, even in freezing temperatures and in the summertime, same thing, getting the sun on my face as I’m going through the motions. And because I’m getting the blood flowing and doing some medium to challenging exercises, I also always feel better when I finish, even though sometimes it’s a drag to get started. If I’m kind of tired of recovering from hard exercise. Brad (13m 26s): The first thing I do every day, highly recommended is a movement routine. So getting the blood flowing and getting the cobwebs out of your brain, getting the final hormonal responses of dropping that adenosine, rising the wakefulness hormones. It feels fantastic, no better way to get out and move. And if you’re not inclined right now to jump into an ambitious movement regimen, like I present on my YouTube video, it can be as simple as leashing up the dog and heading out the door for a walk first thing in the morning with that direct sun exposure. And when I say sun exposure or light exposure, more accurately, I’m talking about just getting outside, even on a cloudy overcast day in, in the Northern hemisphere, you’re still getting sufficient sun exposure. Brad (14m 14s): You’re getting brightness into that super charismatic nucleus to cause all the beneficial effects. So it doesn’t have to be a bright sunny day in the desert of Arizona. It just means getting outside and getting moving. Oh boy, what if it’s too cold in the winter? So what? Under dress and get a little bit of a chill for your 15 minute walk with your dog. That’s a fantastic hormetic stressor that generates all kinds of health benefits. So our obsession with being comfortable and easing into the day with a cup of coffee and a long lingering morning ritual, where we’re doing the crossword puzzle and looking out the window, let’s try to modify that a little bit to get your butt outside, get a little chily. Brad (14m 57s): Of course you can go back in and take a hot shower and all that wonderful stuff, but we want to regain some of these ancestral traditions where we put our body under certain forms of stress and exposure to become stronger, more energetic and more resilient. So that is just number one on the list of Dr. Tommy’s top five that he offered up on our show. The next one, again, it’s going to be so simple, such a great takeaway. The next one has moved more and Tommy’s quote is lift, walk, sprint, jump, climb, whatever you want. Just get moving. We’ve talked so much about this on the podcast. Brad (15m 37s): I love how he grew up all of those together, right? So we’re grouping in the super hardcore CrossFit enthusiasts that’s going and doing the workout of the day and the, you know, challenging athletic fitness goals, grouping them in with the people who are strolling around, maybe not such a morning person, but just getting used to the idea of leashing up the dog and walking slowly around the block for 15 minutes, these all count toward our urgent objective and quota to achieve a bare minimum of all manner or any manner of general everyday movement. Of course, we have the exercise and fitness objectives that make such a great contribution to long, healthy, happy, vibrant, energetic life. Brad (16m 20s): But if that’s not your thing, if you’re not throwing weights around in the gym anytime soon, and you don’t have a big desire to do that, you do have that obligation to just get up and move more. So we want to start out our day with movement and then set a goal to engage throughout the day with frequent movement breaks and avoid these prolonged periods of stillness, which have so many adverse health consequences. If you Google the cheeky term sitting is the new smoking. You can see all kinds of research talking about how our metabolic function declines, even our cognitive abilities declline. After as short as 20 minutes of sitting at a desk, especially even at a standup desk where we’re one better than sitting our butts in a chair and having all the muscular imbalances and things caused by prolonged sitting. Brad (17m 12s): It’s just the prolonged stillness. That is the big problem. And guess what? It doesn’t take a massive lifestyle overhaul to improve your movement objectives. You simply have to get up and even moving for one minute out of every 20 when you’re sitting at a desk or when you’re engaging in evening digital entertainment. Yes, you’re allowed you had a rough day and you get to celebrate, relax, and enjoy some shows on your favorite streaming service. But it’s certainly easily enough to get up and maybe do some foam rolling in between binge watching. When the little sign on the corner of the screen says, the next episode will begin in 10 seconds, 9, 8, 7. Brad (17m 55s): Yeah. Get up and do some gentle basic exercises stretches, especially when you’re talking about a computer, a digital working environment where you are sitting and typing and not doing much with your body. And I also am a huge fan of micro workouts. So this is where you put your body under some form of challenge resistance load to perform a brief explosive effort as your movement break. So, Hey, that’s great. If you can get up and move and stroll around the office courtyard, or walk down the hall to get another post-it note and return to your desk, or go refill your ice tea and climb one flight of stairs and return to your work situation, but even better would be to huff and puff a little bit in a one or two minute break from work. Brad (18m 42s): I talk about my devices and enticements that are in my visual field all day long. So I can look up and see a pull-up bar in my field of view all day long when I’m working at my computer. And that will make me very likely to go over there and perform even just a single set or pull the stretch cords that are hanging from the pull-up bar, even for 10 or 20 or 30 seconds or a minute long set. And so when can, when we can remove this kind of intimidation factor or this complexity factor to what it means to be physically fit and do a workout, you know, getting in the car, driving over to the gym, looking for a parking space, checking in, seeing if any machines are, are available or we’re going to have to wait a little bit, all that nonsense can be put into a different category of just achieving the basic movement objective, including doing some explosive effort. Brad (19m 33s): When it’s time to take a little bit of break. Next on Tommy’s top five list is reduce stress, quote, meditate, do yoga, take a nap, spend time outdoors. Oh my gosh. Let’s think of all those things that have been so marginalized by our potential for hyper-connectivity and constant digital distraction in everyday life. We do not do enough of piling on the other side of the scales of justice from the stress side of the scale to the rest, relaxation, restoration side. If you can envision that a blind lady with the, the scales of justice and the familiar contraption. Brad (20m 18s): And so I know we do things that we believe are stress balancing or stress relieving. After a long, hard day in the office workplace, we head over to the gym to burn some calories and get a sweat and work on our physical fitness. So that’s a nice way to balance life and it pursue disparate goals. But you have to understand that a workout and a difficult, stressful workday, or a difficult personal encounter that is stressful. All of these things pile on the same side of the balance scale, and we need to do more just general. We need to pursue more general downtime. So yes, sleep will go in that category as the most prominent way to balance stress and rest in daily life. Brad (21m 4s): But this other concept of downtime, which I’m really big on where you perhaps, you know, just pivot in your office chair and stare off into space with no agenda and no podcasts playing in the background and no cognitive demand or going outside and raking the leaves for seven minutes without being on a phone call or thinking about anything else. Meditate was the first thing that Tommy mentioned in his list of things to do. And Dave Rossi, my many time guests on the podcast, such a huge fan of meditation, he’s got his own course for novices to get started and, you know, enjoy this experience rather than feel intimidated. There’s many great apps and things that can get you to be dabbling in this, this challenge of quieting the mind, you know, the, the forgotten art in today’s hyper-connected fast paced world. Brad (21m 53s): So anything that you can do to reduce stress, boy, adding that to the, to the balanced scale would be really nice. Here’s another tidbit. If you’re trying to get better and you’re driven and, and so compelled to pursue these awesome goals of being a better career person or athlete. The research from Daniel Coyle wrote really nicely about this and The Talent Code. I heard more content about this on the Huberman lab podcast recently, the way the brain learns is it requires this downtime to process the input, the stimulus that you’ve been given to it. Great example from the world of golf, the great Ben Hogan, legendary golfer, had this penchant for hitting a lot of balls. Brad (22m 37s): He practiced harder than any other golfer of his time. And he was legendary with his practice habits and his quest for perfection on the golf course. But what he would do on the driving range would be to hit balls for 15 minutes straight, and then he would stop and smoke a cigarette. So we can take that example. Don’t, don’t do that part of Ben Hogan’s ritual, but what he achieved from taking these frequent breaks was this five minute downtime for the brain to process the learning input from working on his golf swing. And I think Huberman was talking about this across a broad range of brain learning and functionality. The violin players mentioned in The Talent Code and the research of K Anders Ericsson is, is showing this to where, you know, to really cement learning, you take these breaks and just sit on the bench, sit on the park bench after shooting a hundred baskets and let it seep in. Brad (23m 33s): Not that you have to replay in your mind and visualize the a hundred shots that you just took, but rather just giving the brain a break to do its work. And of course, a lot of this stuff is accelerated during the sleep hours, too. And there’s the examples of the college student studying for the final exam. Should they cram and put in extra hours and pull an all-nighter or should they just go to sleep with their fingers crossing? Well, I hope I did sufficient studying and the answer clearly is to get that sleep, to embed and process all the hard studying that had been done. So we cannot cross over that balance point of too much input and not enough cognitive refreshment to process the input and get better at what we’re going for. Brad (24m 15s): So that’s the reduce stress. Number three, on the list of Tommy woods, top five ways to achieve optimal health with the simple insights. Number four is socialized quote put down the smartphone have fun with friends and family. Have sex. And that is from a guy who’s at the very cutting edge of scientific research for healthy, optimal living. And so when you can unwind all the, the massive amount of information, we’re thrown out about how to live our lives perfectly and the perfect exercise routine and all the information about diet, boy, it kind of renders this stuff less effective, or almost irrelevant if you’re not nailing the, you know, the true most rich aspects of human life, which is a social connection and all that great stuff about, you know, not only enjoying your life, but making a contribution in that manner. Brad (25m 10s): I was listening to a podcast with Esther Perel. They very popular therapist. She was talking to Peter Attia and she said that we formed our relationship ourself self-concept through or via our relationships with others. So everything’s bounced off of others. This kind of makes sense, right? If you’re doing a, a solo journey along the 2,237 mile Pacific Crest Trail all summer, and the most interaction you have with other humans is a friendly, hello, as you’re passing on the trail, and then you’re left to your own thoughts, your self-concept and the things that are running through your head are gonna be quite different than if you’re engaged in a bunch of high intensity, important relationships in everyday life, such as with family, friends and in the workplace. Brad (25m 55s): So it’s kind of interesting that, you know, the way you get put out the energy that you put out, the way you conduct yourself with others is going to be mirrored and reflected back to you. Meaning that we want to prioritize our social connections and our social conduct, rather than just putting our head down and thinking that whatever it is that we have to do our work or our problems are so important that we can just blow everybody off. That’s the recipe for a mental disaster, isn’t it. So prioritizing socializing, social connection makes the list of the top five and then a fifth is eat real food. And I think Tommy’s tidbit here is quit splitting hairs and, you know, trying to hack this idea of what is the optimal diet. Brad (26m 42s): And then the problem is really simplified no matter who you are and what your belief systems are around food. If you can simply eliminate the big three toxic modern food categories of refined sugars, grains, and industrial seed oils. You are so far down the line to healthy, optimal eating that you’re going to celebrate and be in fantastic shape when it comes to disease risk factors, and every other marker, probably maintaining ideal body composition as well. I’ll put a little caveat here for the very popular plant-based movement, where the decision to exclude the vast majority of the most nutrient dense foods on earth, for whatever reason, not going to judge here and not going to challenge anyone’s moral objections to consuming an egg or a sardine. Brad (27m 32s): But when you do that, you are entering a very high risk dietary mode. And I don’t think that’s an opinion as much as just a statement of factual science. When you’re talking about a nutritional profile of the various foods on earth. Can you do it? Yes, you can. People are thriving. They’re writing a best-selling books about this, and they make some really excellent points to object about the industrialization and the mechanization of modern processed foods. And so when we’re talking about animals produced from feeding operations and chicken coops and adverse farming methods, when it comes to whether it’s fish or cattle or what have you. Brad (28m 18s): Yeah. We need to sit up and take notice and make the best choices possible and not buy in and support that industrial food complex, but rather try to source local and all those great messages. But I will make that distinction when you’re making the decision to go plant based in the name of health, that’s a highly objectionable point of view there just because of what you’re sacrificing. Now, back to the back to the subject, if you can get those hyper palatable, nutrient deficient, heavily processed foods out of the diet, you are going to avoid these common problems of the high carbohydrate high insulin producing, producing nutrient deficient diet, where we are compelled to overeat due to the nutrient deficiency of the staple foods in this grain-based high carbohydrate diet, furthermore, as detailed in great books like Wired to Eat, The Hungry Brain, Good Calories, Bad Calories, The Hacking of the American Mind, Dr. Brad (29m 21s): Robert Lustig. Furthermore, when you leak these foods into the diet, these hyper palatable heavily processed foods, often they combine refined carbohydrates with high levels of fat something that’s completely foreign to our genetic experience as hunter gatherers, right? It does not exist in nature, a Twinkie, an ice cream, potato chips, milkshake, all the things that combine sugar and fat together. These foods hijack the pleasure receptors, the dopamine pathways in the brain, to the extent that they provide that amazing instant gratification. Who can argue that a slice of New York cheesecake isn’t delicious. But what they do is they leave you craving more and more, and you become, in a sense, an addict to these hyper palatable nutrient deficient process foods. Brad (30m 7s): So the goal of just ditching those and transitioning over to real food will get you so far down the path of healthy eating that we need not even continue the discussion until we’re there and wondering, Hey, should I try this carnivore? Or what about keto? What about paleo? What about strict paleo? What about casual paleo? What about plant-based all that stuff can come downstream from cleaning up your diet. So to review, we have inspired by Dr. Tommy Wood and his great shows, the top five ways, simple ways to achieve optimal health. Number one, sleep enough. Number two, move more. And that counts all kinds of movement, including intense exercise, including just walking around the block with your dog. Brad (30m 49s): When you wake up. Number three, reduce stress. Number four socialize, prioritize social connection. And number five, eat real food. Thank you for listening. That was some fun stuff and more to come, let us know what you think by sending an email to podcast@bradventures.com. Thank you so much for taking the time to leaving a review on the podcast player that you use. Apple podcasts is the most popular, but if you use a little one, a boy, that’s really, really would be fun to be spreading the word to others in that manner. It really helps the show. And oh, as always appreciate your support that dah dah, dah, dah. 3 (31m 31s): Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows, subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bi-monthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. 3 (32m 16s): It helps raise the profile of the be read podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.rad.

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Get ready for an extremely informative and interesting show all about glucose! We’ll be talking about the wonderful new technology of continuous glucose monitoring with dietician Molly Downey from the health technology company, Nutrisense.

This episode breaks down the science and benefits behind Nutrisense, the fantastic technology that allows you to track your blood glucose levels over a sustained period of time. This is incredibly helpful as the data Nutrisense gives you shows you the effect of not just your dietary choices, but also how all aspects of your lifestyle affect your blood glucose levels. You’ll also learn why Molly says that if your cortisol is consistently activated, you’re going to have a lot of difficulty losing weight, as well as the importance of monitoring your postprandial glucose response.

I’ve also arranged for an awesome 25% discount on any NutriSense program for B.rad podcast listeners. Just use the code BRAD25 at checkout or visit this link. And don’t forget to check out my previous show with Nutrisense co-founder Kara Collier here!

TIMESTAMPS:

With a tiny monitor and phone app, you can track your blood glucose. [01:35]

There are many factors that affect our blood glucose levels. [07:58]

Sleep and glucose have a bi-directional relationship. [11:25]

It’s normal to see glucose rise while you’re sleeping; it is not necessarily a bad thing. [15:42]

And with melatonin, there is a decrease in the secretion of insulin and also a decrease in insulin sensitivity. [18:56]

Some people can tolerate eating a meal late at night and others cannot. [20:30]

Stress is another factor affecting the glucose level. [23:51]

What does an optimal glucose subject look like? Try to avoid the high spikes in the first place. [25:54]

The focus needs to be on the post-meal responses. People react differently to different carbohydrates. [32:09]

Molly developed many physical symptoms that doctors couldn’t define or treat. [34:27]

Many people have no problem maintaining the baseline no matter what they eat. It is important, still, to monitor occasionally. [39:20]

The optimal level is to be below 100, but there are other aspects to look at. [42:19]

Molly suggests a return to baseline in two or three hours, which seems like a long time. [46:16]

Protein and fat can often mitigate the glucose spike response. How does having an apple for a snack compare with having a soda? [49:00]

When using the app, we can watch for dangerous dips and compare responses from the foods we eat. [51:51]

What are some of the weird readings people have that are difficult to explain? [55:31]

How does heat, dehydration, and a workout show up on your chart? [58:22]

The dietary training certification allows for dieticians to continue their exploration with individuals and learn new data and not necessarily follow strict recommendations. [01:04:52]

LINKS:

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This free podcast offering is a team effort from Brad, Daniel, Siena, Gail, TJ, Vuk, RedCircle, our awesome guests, and our incredibly cool advertising partners. We are now poised and proud to double dip by both soliciting a donation and having you listen to ads! If you wanna cough up a few bucks to salute the show, we really appreciate it and will use the funds wisely for continued excellence. Go big (whatever that means to you…) and we’ll send you a free jar of Brad’s Macadamia Masterpiece as a thank you! Email to alert us! Choose to donate nowlater, or never. Either way, we thank you for choosing from the first two options…

B.Rad Podcast

Brad (1m 36s): Hey listeners, here comes a, another extremely informative and interesting show about glucose and the wonderful new technology of the continuous glucose monitor. I have Molly Downey dietician from Nutrisense on the line. We’re going to get all deep into this important subject. I think it’s one of the great breakthroughs in technology and self quantification that I’ve seen in years. Most of the stuff I have no, no use for no interest in. I think we kind of overanalyze every little thing in life. And so you’ll see me working out without even a watch or worrying about too many of the, the biofeedback tools. Same with sleep. Brad (2m 16s): I can’t imagine tracking my sleep because I I’d started thinking about it instead of falling asleep. But with continuous glucose meter that you attached to your body, a tiny little sensor that goes on your arm, and then the smartphone app, you can track your blood glucose over a sustained period of time. Each trip through the center takes two weeks. And so you sign up for two months or three months or whatever you want, and you have all this data to see how not only your dietary choices, but all aspects of your lifestyle affect your blood glucose, that critical health metric, where we want to see a good baseline average, as well as, and Molly talks about this in detail, even more important than your fasting blood glucose reading, the familiar number that we get from the doctor, even more important is your ability, your postprandial glucose response, your ability to return your glucose to baseline level soon after eating a meal of any kind. Brad (3m 14s): And so all these things are being tracked. She’s going to talk about them in detail. She’s going to talk about her own personal health journey, where she was fit. She was athletic. She thought she was super healthy. She was into that plant-based diet. So she was consuming a lot of carbohydrates. And then she got into the metering and realized that she was heading down the path to pre-diabetes other associated health problems. And her journey to healing began with this idea of monitoring the glucose response to meals and throughout the day, and it turned into a career for her. So I think you’re going to get a lot of interesting information. This show pairs well with my previous show with K ara Collier, the co-founder of Nutrsense, and that was boy, a couple of years ago. Brad (3m 58s): Now just when the technology was just emerging. Now it’s quite prevalent. They have thousands of members who are, you know, supplying more and more data. So we can really learn the healthiest way to navigate our dietary choices. And perhaps most particularly the individuality that influences our dietary choices and helps us frame all the information we’re getting about whether we should be keto or paleo or carnivore or plant paste. Now we can put it to the data and see how things work for you. So you can customize your optimal dietary strategy rather than just going with the, going with the flow. Brad (4m 38s): Good stuff from Molly Downey at neutral sense, Molly Downey, I have you on the line and the screen. If you’re watching on YouTube, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. You are the one of the powerhouses behind Nutrisense. It is so awesome to engage with you and the others with this incredible one-on-one support. I have to say there’s nothing like it. And I think we should start by discussing the operation, how it’s grown in a, in a short time. And then we’ll talk about the intricacies of monitoring your blood glucose and what it means for health and how to, how to improve certain markers. Brad (5m 17s): So first, yeah, I want to ask you, what’s it like your career? What do you, what do you do with people? And that’ll be a great education. Molly (5m 26s): Yeah. I’m so happy to have this discussion with you as well. We, I work for Nutriense. So we are a health technology company and we leverage continuous glucose monitors, or we often refer to it as the CGM. And we use this device to offer more insight into how a person might respond, you know, metabolically to different foods, to different stressors, exercise, sleep, all of these different variables play into, you know, how your body responds. So we started or Kara was the, is the director of nutrition. And she started Nutrisense, you know, a few years back, but we’ve grown, grown no progressively since then, even since I’ve been with Nutrisense, we’ve, you know, we were at probably five dieticians at that point. Molly (6m 17s): And now we’re, you know, in the late twenties. So, you know, we’re, I think we’re somewhere around 27 dieticians, but we formed, you know, an excellent team. They’re all, you know, super smart and determined and it’s just super exciting. You know, all of this data is novel and we’re just beginning to, you know, get a grasp on our understanding of all of this. So it’s, it’s super fascinating. It’s so exciting to be a part of the Nutrisense team and right. We’re we’re our goal is to, to spread health awareness, provide more insight into a person’s body, right? Molly (6m 58s): There’s so much information out there, you know, online, or you can find research to back up essentially, any sort of diet, right? Whether that is, you know, keto or carnivore, plant-based, there’s, you know, all this back and forth between all of that. So with Nutrisense , it’s, it’s humbling in the fact that we get more, so a sense of that individuality, right? So not everyone’s going to have the same response to stress or, you know, poor sleep or specific foods. So what we’re doing is allowing the person to become more knowledgeable and educated. So then they can make those informed decisions later on down the road. Molly (7m 40s): So it’s super exciting. The technology of continuous. Glucose monitoring is excellent. And obviously we’re still in those, you know, those infancy stages, but hopefully it’ll only progress from here, but yes, it’s, it’s been amazing and super exciting to see. Brad (7m 58s): So previous to the consumer launch of, of, of companies like yours, this technology was in use with diabetics through medical prescription. They had to monitor their glucose. They can go hit the, the blood meter a bunch of times a day or put this patch on the arm. So now it’s super convenient. You use a smartphone, you, you slap it up to your arm where the sensor is, but it’s only recently become available to, to sort of an enthusiast who is not in disease protocol. And that’s what they, that’s what the cool part is. And that’s how you explode from a few dieticians to 27, is people on the cutting edge of health, or I suppose in that pre-diabetic window, which just encompassed 130 million Americans, right? Brad (8m 44s): So it’s like, Hey dude, you better start paying attention to this stuff and, and slap this thing on your arm. And so I’m excited about it because of the potential for behavior modifications. All of a sudden, instead of one, visit a year to the doctor, seeing an adverse value and then going about your busy life. Now you can track all kinds of things. And I want to tee up this ramp with a question because you made a great point where you mentioned exercise, sleep, stress, all these other things. And I think we kind of, even in the really high, knowledgeable health enthusiast, we kind of focus on our food choices perhaps to excess. Brad (9m 24s): In other words, there’s so many other factors that affect our blood glucose and our health and our, our metabolic markers. So maybe you could talk about how some of these things, besides the pineapple hot fudge sundae that you just ate, what, how other things affect those glucose levels. And also what we’re looking for, if you want to, you can, you can be the next person to ramp. You can, that was a four-part long question Molly (9m 52s): For sure. And you know, just what you said with the whole idea of, you know, focusing more so on the non-diabetic population. Most people think of glucose and it’s associated with the diabetic population, right? Monitoring glucose levels is, is imperative, but we’re putting no more so of a preventative lens on it, where it can provide value to someone who, you know, isn’t in that disease state. And you’re able to recognize more of these, you know, the red flags aren’t there, but maybe there are yellow flags that are easier to fix earlier on, or you can make, you know, minor sort of, sort of adjustments to, but of course food is a huge implication and it promotes, you know, glucose responses. Molly (10m 39s): But with what you said, there are other variables as well. And you know, if we’re looking at, you know, there’s, there’s different pillars of health and, you know, we, we focus on sleep. We focus on stress. We focus on exercise in addition to, you know, what we’re actually eating because all of these different variables play into our overall health. And we shouldn’t underestimate one and then like overemphasize and others. So if someone comes in and, you know, say they’re trying to lose weight or something and their, their diets great, their exercise is great, but what if their sleep is off? And what if they’re completely stressed out? And, you know, if your cortisol, which is your stress hormone is, you know, consistently activated, you’re going to have a lot of difficulty losing weight. Molly (11m 26s): So th the, the amazing thing about the continuous glucose monitor is that we’re not just focusing on nutrition. We have all these other variables at play. So if we’re looking at sleep, for example, it’s definitely a fascinating thing that we can discover through continuous glucose monitoring. It’s one of the trends that we see all the time. So with sleep and glucose, there is a bi-directional relationship. What I mean by this is, you know, say that you have a poor sleep. It’s very common to see elevated glucose levels overnight. So what happens is our body is recognizing this, this poor sleep as a stressor on the body. Molly (12m 12s): And what happens when the body is stressed out is there is this endogenous production of glucose. So we see that blood sugar increase, and there’s also a decrease in insulin sensitivity. So if someone, you know, say I’m working with one of our members and they, most of the time, their glucose levels overnight are somewhere in the nineties range. And then I checked their data, you know, one morning and their levels are more so, you know, say it hit like one 10, but there’s no other variables. You know, if we take out the confounding factors of, was there a meal the night before, or are you stressed? If we can zero in on, you know, sleep, you know, your glucose levels can increase significantly because of that. Molly (12m 56s): And it’s not only the overnight values that are impacted. So as we go into the next day, right, that stress is still going on and our bodies are fatigued and we’ll see that, you know, blood sugar regulation is not controlled as well. So we, you know, maybe you had a banana one day and, you know, in the morning after having a fantastic night’s sleep and you had a great response to it, like you were able to tolerate it. But, you know, after that four nights sleep, you might have that same exact banana at the same time, and you might have a poor response to it. So we see this trend all the time, that foods that are otherwise tolerated well, if you, if, if you consume them after a poor night’s sleep, you know, you know, it drags on to the next day. Molly (13m 47s): So it’s not just affecting that, you know, in that period of time, it’s, it’s, it’s taking you into your next day as well. And of course, like there’s other variables like, like mood and appetite, right? So with poor sleep, you can have, you know, an increase in hunger, hormones or ghrelin and, you know, decrease satiety . So this can, this can make it, so you can, you start eating even more. So sleep is not something that, you know, should be undermined and always, you know, I always pay attention to it because there are so many implications that come along with it. And then, you know, as I was saying, you know, sleep and glucose is bi-directional right. Molly (14m 30s): So what I just explained, if you have poor sleep, you can have that, that increase in glucose, but also say that you have high glucose levels from a different variable. So what if you eat something later on in the evening, so say you eat like a cheeseburger and fries, and then you go to sleep 20 minutes and your glucose is rollercoastering all night and, you know, high levels, then, you know, I’ll usually ask someone too. It’s like, how was your sleep at night? And most of the time, it’s like, yeah, I was tossing and turning all night. I had crappy sleep. I didn’t feel well. Molly (15m 11s): You know? So in that aspect, you know, the high glucose from a different variable, such as food can impact your sleep as well. So it, you know, that foods acting as kind of like a stimulant to the nervous system, so it can make you more alert so it can make it. So it’s more difficult to actually fall asleep and then stay asleep as well. So those are, you know, that’s that bi-directional focus that we’re looking at with the glucose data with sleep, but it’s, it’s definitely fascinating to see, Brad (15m 42s): Right? Bi-directional bad news on, on both sides. And then I also assumed by directional, if you have good glucose regulation, good dietary choices, you put your head on the pillow, your glucose has been stable for several hours, and it will continue to be, as you facilitate a good night’s sleep with your healthy lifestyle. So there’s a couple of questions that come up. One of them is that the, the elevated blood glucose overnight, elevated from the person’s norm implies that they’re stressed. Cortisol is kicking in prompting this process of gluco-neogenesis making more blood sugar. But I know we don’t make more blood glucose than we need at any one time to function. Brad (16m 23s): So it’s going to be elevated to the point that whatever our body’s asking for, even as we can lay there and sleep and don’t need a lot of energy. So I’m curious what’s happening there. I would assume that we’re, down-regulating fat burning, which would be the ideal while we’re sleeping, because we don’t need a lot of explosive energy to lift ourselves over the bar or, you know, engage in high stress activity. So we’re, we’re laying down to a crappy night’s sleep because we’re stressed, we’re tossing and turning, we’re making more glucose than I would, I would guess is optimal at the expense of fat burning. Is that a, is that a, a fair assessment? Molly (17m 4s): Yeah, I think like what you’re, what you’re trying to get at is, well, first of all, it’s, it’s normal to see a glucose rise while you’re sleeping. So this is not directly like a bad thing. It’s a very normal trend to see. So say you’re in the eighties all day, and then your glucose levels, as you fall asleep, go into, you know, maybe the 95 range. That’s not bad. That’s a normal physiological process. And I can kind of go in to more reasons there, but it would what we’re looking for in overnight data. And we don’t have as much evidence or research here because most of what we’re looking at historically was our fasting levels. Molly (17m 49s): You know, if we’re just doing lab data or fingerprick data, someone wasn’t waking up in the middle of the night, Brad (17m 56s): Unless they’re an Olympic athlete, then they have the world anti-doping agency random unannounced testing at any time, 24/7 for normal people. No, there’s no door, no doorbell for the glucose test. Molly (18m 9s): So we’re missing out on this huge period of time. So that’s one of the main things that someone will come in and start testing their blood sugar, and they see that increase and it may not be bad, but they’re just, you know, there’s questioning about that. And there’s a few reasons as to why this is happening. And I like to think of it from, you know, you know, a circadian rhythm mindset, right? So if we’re looking at what’s going on throughout our day. Right. If, you know, if we take melatonin, for example, melatonin is the darkness hormone. And if levels are more steady and lower, you know, naturally with melatonin during the day, it’s later on at night, that when the darkness starts to come in, that we see this increase in melatonin. Molly (18m 57s): And with melatonin, there is a decrease in the secretion of insulin and also a decrease in insulin sensitivity. So with, and we actually see it with melatonin supplementation. So like the supplement in, in difference from like the actual natural hormone that’s being produced endogenously. But I do see sometimes if someone’s supplementing with melatonin, with like higher amounts of it, that they have higher overnight values. And it’s because of that mechanism where, you know, the, the pancreas is not producing as much insulin, if there is any like food in the system or anything, or it there’s that decrease in insulin sensitivity at the time and glucose just naturally is arising. Molly (19m 48s): So that is something that I do see. And it, it doesn’t mean that taking melatonin at night is a bad thing, right? You want to, you want to look at the big picture and if it’s improving your sleep, then I would say that that’s a good thing. So it was just like an interesting insight that I do see sometimes with melatonin supplementation, but back to what I was saying with, you know, circadian rhythms and biology. Like if you think about that process and what’s going on later on at night with, you know, melatonin and no, we’re not, you know, darkness, no, from an evolutionary perspective, that’s a time of, you know, you know, sleep and cellular restoration. Molly (20m 31s): And, you know, we’re not supposed to be out, you know, doing all of these things. And that’s not a time that we were supposed to be eating. And we see this in the data all the time that we have a most people have a significant, significant decrease in, you know, the way that they can tolerate food later on in the evening. And you know, it, it’s so interesting to see it in the glucose data, you know, and, and some people can eat a meal later on in the evening and be able to tolerate it well. Other people, they do not do well with it at all. So I would say for the most part, carbohydrates in general, people have more difficulty processing and that’s due to that decrease in insulin sensitivity at that time. Molly (21m 19s): So we’re less able to tolerate it. So we’ll see, you know, maybe you eat, we can use that banana example again, but if you eat the banana later on in the evening, you might have, you know, an exaggerated response from that. Whereas if you eat it earlier on in the day, you may not respond to it as you know, at all. And that’s just because it’s that time period and, you know, timing of when we’re actually eating food, you know, plays a significant role. But yeah, I think I, I don’t know what tangent I went off on, but to answer your question, yes, it’s normal to see that inherent rise in glucose overnight. Molly (21m 59s): The, what we’re looking at is, you know, different factors like what’s actually causing it and like, can we work through some modifications to lower those levels? So, you know, maybe one thing would be working on your evening meal. Right? So, so you’re like what I was saying, if you’re eating that cheeseburger and fries and falling asleep right away, one of the modifications that I would suggest is, okay, let’s try to eat our last meal before 6:00 PM or something. Right. That’s kind of just the baseline number that, you know, timing that I’ll suggest it doesn’t work for everyone. Sometimes we have to push it back even further. But if you eat your meal earlier, you know, in, before you go to bed at least like three hours before bed and ensuring that, you know, it’s low carb, right? Molly (22m 49s): So say they eat that low carb meal at 6:00 PM and their glucose levels were far more steady overnight. Then that would be, you know, something that could be helpful for them. And, you know, if they also find that their sleep is improved in that aspect, then I would say that that is, you know, an intervention that would be helpful for that person. So there’s kind of different ways that we can go about it. Brad (23m 10s): So you’re saying it’s normal to see the individual’s average glucose rise overnight, let’s say higher than some of the averages during the day and the app users. If you’re not, if you haven’t signed up yet, you’re going to sign up after the show. But if you’re familiar with it, you have all this data, it seems to keep getting better with more functionality and more acute things to track, but one of them it’ll have the hourly average. So 2:00 AM every single day over the previous month, you’d know what your average is. And then, you know what it is at 2:00 PM, 3:00 PM, 4:00 PM. So at a glance, you can pick all these insights and see how they apply it to you directly. But I I’m, I’m curious to know more about that. Brad (23m 52s): `So back to that example of the stressed person who, you know, goes to bed in a, in a disordered state and is tossing and turning all night, and then you’re seeing glucose rise above their typical average, is that the stress response kicking in, in an adverse manner. And then secondly, why is it normal or why is it okay to see glucose higher, overnight than, than a daily average or an afternoon average? Molly (24m 21s): Right? So with what you were saying too, like, you can look at the hourly, but we actually now have a feature in the app. So in the analytics portion, we look at sleep average. So that’s like a new thing too. So I implement that a lot. But generally speaking, we like to keep it below 105 milligrams per deciliter, for most people with stress. Yes. You know, that could make it so your glucose levels are elevated. And when you say, you know, why is it not necessarily a bad thing just in it’s more so, because it’s, it’s an inherent, you know, physiological process that our bodies are. Molly (25m 9s): It’s not always a significant increase in blood sugar, but you know, a slow glucose rise is something I see in mostly everyone. So it’s it’s so that rise I’m okay with it’s when we start to see the rise, you know, that are consistently below that, but above that 1 0 5 range or, you know, we’re mainly just focusing on trends and kind of what’s, what’s causing it and see if, you know, you know, if it is stress, can, you know, meditation beforehand, you know, before bed, can that be helpful? You know, if you’re managing your stress during the day, you know, maybe you need more exercise or so many different things. Molly (25m 50s): So it’s kind of just working on different modifications there. Brad (25m 55s): A couple of times you’ve mentioned we see the, the member doesn’t do well with the banana or back to the banana example. What does that actually, how does that play out when you say you tolerate the banana really well in the morning, and then in the evening, the same banana after busy, stressful day, whatever we can looking at a, a spike that’s two prolong that doesn’t come back down? Maybe you can talk about variability now. And, and what, what actually are the, the goals of getting this thing on our arm and getting the 10 out of 10 scores. If you’re not familiar with that, listeners, it does rate in different categories, how well you’re doing on this project. And, oh my gosh, my friend Ray, who’s a longtime user up in Lake Tahoe. Brad (26m 38s): He gets really frustrated. Like if he forgot to zap it enough time, and then there’s a gap. And then he goes from 10 out of 10 to fours or threes because, you know, it’s just the, that he didn’t measure the data as soon enough. And he blows his whole 10 out of 10 score. So lots of incentive there to look good, but what is, what is a, an optimal glucose subject look like? Molly (27m 2s): Good question. Yeah. So one of the major trends that we’re looking at in glucose data is your postprandial or post-meal responses. So this is how you’re responding to a particular food, right? So with the banana, it’s not abnormal to have a glucose spike from banana, right? Since, you know, it contains carbohydrate and glucose is a constituent of that, which causes and promotes that glucose rise. So what we’re looking at is we’re, we want to keep these glucose responses within a particular threshold, right? Molly (27m 42s): So when we do have a glucose spike, we want to keep the peak below on milligrams per deciliter, because you know what we understand currently with research and some people have different thresholds, but we just keep it, you know, just based off of what the research that we have now, we keep it at 1 44, but generally, you know, healthy individual, if the person wants to lower it, then they can, but we do it at this. You, we have this peak at 140, because if our glucose levels are consistently going beyond this point, we, you know, we’re more susceptible to, you know, oxidation and, you know, stress and inflammation that, you know, might be occurring. Molly (28m 33s): So it’s important that, you know, when we’re in these high ranges that we come back down sooner rather than later. So first off we want to avoid these high spikes in the first place. So we don’t want to be going beyond threshold on a consistent basis. Secondly, we want to, if we do have these higher spikes, we want to come down in, you know, a decent amount of time in what we deem as decent would be two to three hours. So if you do have a spike coming back down in that two hour period, that would indicate to me that you have good insulin sensitivity, right? You were able to tolerate that carbohydrate well, and your body was able to adapt, bring your levels back down. Molly (29m 20s): If we’re looking at someone who is more insulin resistant. So, you know, I see this all the time with my, my diabetic members, if they have a glucose response that goes beyond threshold, you know, it’s, it’s gonna take longer for their response to come back down to pre-meal values. So the reason being is because there are less influenced sensitive, so they have more, so this insulin resistance, so their body is just having more difficulty processing that well, and, you know, getting it back to premium values, you know, in more regular alignment with what blood glucose levels say they want. Molly (30m 4s): So it’s important, you know, and, and not only someone, you know, if someone is consistently having these high blood sugar spikes beyond threshold, and they’re lasting, you know, five, six hours, you know, this would indicate to me, okay, your body’s having more difficulty, you know, processing this meal. And, you know, again, what I was saying with these yellow flags, I feel like I’m the perfect example of it. I do not have. And the reason I became so interested in this in the first place is because I have horrible postprandial responses. I don’t respond well to carbohydrates and it was my, and boggling to me because I always thought of myself as, you know, a healthy person, I grew up playing sports. Molly (30m 47s): I was an athlete, right. I ate, well. I was a dietician, but I was not having good, you know, carbohydrate responses. And to me, I don’t know, I think at this point, you know, I don’t have severe insulin resistance, but this is a huge red flag to me, that something is wrong, right? And if I were to, I know now from measuring my glucose, yeah. I, you know, have to be mindful of how I incorporate carbohydrates into my diet. So it’s not just, you know, processed foods like, you know, that will promote these responses. I respond poorly to even like quinoa or sweet potato and some fruit. Molly (31m 29s): So I just have to work with manipulations on how to process these things. But if I weren’t to not pay attention to these, then you know, this would be likely progress into a more severe disease state or insulin resistance down the road. So it’s just like, I’m lucky enough that I already am able to recognize this and I can work on modifications and you know, I’m not going to be perfect. We can’t be perfect, but you know, at least I have awareness and now I can make informed decisions about, you know, my health and how I can be proactive and, you know, making it, so these issues don’t come up down the road. Molly (32m 10s): So yeah, the, the postprandial or the post-meal responses is what I focus on most. And they’re the easiest and fastest, you know, trends to repair. Right? If we’re looking at like fasting or baseline values, they’re more difficult to improve. They take a lot more time, especially if there’s like a hormonal issue or insulin resistance at play, like that can take a long time to kind of budge, but the postprandial responses, like you can just make minor adjustments to, you know, you can either pair the carbohydrate with a protein, or you can, you know, lower the, the carbohydrate amount in the meal, or, you know, different people respond differently to different types of carbohydrates. Molly (32m 59s): So there’s way to ways to kind of work around it. But again, we want to avoid those high spikes, hitting those high levels that are staying up there for a long period of time, because that’s, what’s going to induce that those negative consequences like inflammation and oxidative stress. So that’s, you know, kind of the reasoning as to why we’re looking at the, the, the, the variability there. Brad (33m 24s): So in your case, did you have a noticeable adverse symptoms that you’re going through life with as a healthy fit athletic person of optimal body composition and very high level of awareness to eating healthy foods and so forth? And would you attribute your sensitivity to genetics, or was there something like, and I might be asking this question on behalf of millions of active exercising folks who consume a lot of carbohydrates, burn a lot of carbohydrates look athletic, healthy, and fit on the outside, but her baking up pre-diabetic Timothy Noakes, the, the famous exercise physiologist from South Africa being the most prominent example of someone who was, you know, running ultra marathons, you know, working in the, at the highest level of his, of his field. Brad (34m 15s): And one of the world’s foremost experts on athletic training and nutrition and diet. And he basically had to throw everything in the garbage can and change his life because he himself was a, you know, on a disease path rather than a healthy path. Molly (34m 28s): Yeah, for sure. I, well, a few years ago, like when I started to develop my own personal health issues, so it was more so, like I was experiencing like extreme fatigue, brain fog, and I had a lot of skin issues. So I, you know, I was going to all of these different doctors trying to figure out what was going on, but of course they are more so providing them that bandaid approach. And, you know, th they were providing me with the answers that I was looking for, the type of person I need to understand why something is happening. Brad (35m 2s): Oh, no. Here comes Molly again for her appointment. Okay. Get ready here. Just take these pills and get outta here. No, no, no, no. I got another question. I got another one. Yeah. Molly (35m 12s): So I was just increasingly frustrated. So I, I, like, I thought back to the reason I became interested in this in the first place was I, my professor had brought in a glucose meter one day during my internship, and she asked for volunteers to test their blood sugar and yeah, I’ll do it. It was, it was a fasting blood sugar. And I had no idea at the time, but I was one of the only people in the class, along with the other guy that had not eaten anything. So technically we were in a fasted state. So yeah. And we were looking for fasting values. Molly (35m 54s): So this is like being eight hours without food, where our levels are at baseline. We want to be in that 70 to 90 range. And my levels were at 108 milligrams per deciliter for, you know, when I did my finger prick. And of course my professor voiced her concerns to me. She’s like, Molly you need to go to a doctor and check on this, but I didn’t at the time, but it always was ruminating in the back of my head. And as I started to feel, you know, I didn’t feel well, like, you know, years down the road with my brain fog, my skin issues. And again, nothing was making sense. I kind of had that, you know, light bulb moment, oh, maybe I should get a glucose meter and start testing my blood sugar, which I did. Molly (36m 37s): And, you know, I started seeing all the signs of high fasting levels, high postprandial responses. So for me, it just opened up this awareness and at least provided some sort of gratification that like, I at least found something, right. I was going to these doctors and they weren’t able to like give me any sort of answers. So me knowing that something was not right. And I could explicitly see that through glucose testing opened up my world to a lot of different things. And I further discovered that I had a polycystic ovarian syndrome. So it’s, PCOS basically just a hormonal imbalance, but it’s very common for females with PCOS to have poor blood sugar regulation in about 70% of the PCOS population are insulin resistance. Molly (37m 29s): So this kind of opened up my eyes to all of these things. You, you know, we’re referring to the South African, you know, doctor or whatever. He, he was like an athlete and everything. And I, I grew up playing sports too, but I was eating more so like plant-based because that’s kind of what was drilled into our head with, you know, being in school and our internship. But I quick fleet altered my perspective on that. And I think my own health experience, you know, promoted that change, but I started incorporating, you know, more meat and, you know, more animal-based products into my diet and I started feeling significantly better. Molly (38m 15s): So it was, I was eating high carb diet, which is a plant-based diet. Well, not wholly, but like mostly and now, you know, in hindsight that makes complete sense why, you know, my blood sugar was out of control. And, you know, I know now if I eat carbohydrate, you know, and I was eating in morning, afternoon, and at night, my, my blood sugars probably consistently just like out of control. So it was very eyeopening for me personally. And I think, you know, it’s a perfect example of, you know, you could be this fit, you know, athlete or anything, and, you know, you’re, you can not maybe be so healthy on the inside. Molly (39m 0s): So again, it’s the, we have a ton of athletes that come to Nutrisense too, and not everyone has that great, you know, metabolic control that they would suspect that they have. So I think, you know, that’s a truly fascinating aspect of glucose monitoring for sure. Brad (39m 20s): Now, do you see a ton of individual variation where the next person through the door can be slamming carbs all day long, hitting the gym and turning in their numbers. And they have a beautiful, you know, stability and quick return to baseline after meals. Molly (39m 39s): For sure. There’s, you know, there’s plenty of people that, you know, they can eat carbs at night. They can, you know, eat more processed foods and have a normal response to it. So they just are metabolically, you know, more flexible and more tolerant of these types of foods. But yeah, there’s definitely then the people that come on like meat and just their blood sugar is out of whack. So, you know, that’s why I suggest at least trying, you know, monitoring your blood glucose at at some point, just to see, right, just to, you know, if you are in a good place, that’s awesome. You know, maybe check again in a year from now and, you know, see how your body changes because your glucose can be manipulated through so many different things. Molly (40m 29s): So it’s just an important variable or metric to monitor, but yeah, it’s truly dependent on the individual for sure. Brad (40m 40s): And again, probably most of us listening have had annual physical or had our blood drawn once in a while. And if you think about the sum total of all the blood glucose readings of your whole life, you know, if you go to the doctor once a year for a physical, and here’s 27 years of, of blood readings, you’re going to get that amount in a single day with the sensor And so the data is so much more relevant than a snapshot from one visit to the physician once in awhile, especially as it relates to these nuances, like sleep and everything. So you’re saying you’re desire, you want to see a fasting blood glucose in the range of 70 to 90. And that seems quite low for me. Brad (41m 21s): Are you saying this is a goal that all of us should aspire to that’s that’s going to be a high score and anything over that is something to look at, or is there some variation there to where this person is supremely healthy, even though they’re at 100 in a fasted state? Molly (41m 39s): Yeah. There’s definitely nuances to fasting levels. And of course, like what I was saying, I, I put more emphasis on glycemic variability and postprandial responses because it is normal to see variation and seeing levels, you know, on a daily basis. And especially if you’re just going to your doctor and getting that single finger prick, like what if you had a super high carb meal right before bed and you slept horribly and you go at your finger prick and it’s at like one 10. That could just be that, that day. Right. That’s just one instant in time. Molly (42m 19s): Whereas with the, with the, the continuous glucose monitor, you can see maybe your glucose doesn’t always like that. And it’s more so just a factor of one sort of manipulation that you can make there with your evening meal. So there are nuances there and yes, like ideally, you know, staying, if you want to reach optimal health, like staying in that 70 to 90 range is, is a good bet, but it doesn’t mean that if your levels are, you know, I mean, mine are, you know, it doesn’t mean that I am in super poor health, right. There’s, there’s other factors that can be playing in there and conventionally, they just want levels, you know, to be at least below a hundred. Molly (43m 8s): So I guess there’s like optimal versus like what is probably okay. And then, you know, what gets into more where negative implications can come about? So I don’t want to like, put that pressure on someone to think like, oh, if my levels are not in the 70 to 90 range, I am sick or, you know, something bad is going to happen. It’s just, there’s so many other working parts to our health. And, you know, I never want to focus solely on one thing. And if, you know, if that’s something that’s difficult that, you know, to fix, then, you know, I will focus more so on something that we can, you know, what is it in our control and what can we fix? So Brad (43m 48s): Right. If there’s, if there’s no reported, you know, adverse consequences of someone, you know, cooking up a a hundred every morning. And I’m reminding myself of my experience when I was working on the keto reset diet and going deep, deep into the ketogenic diet and monitoring my carbohydrates and eating less than 50 grams a day and fasting for long periods of time. And I would routinely have morning blood glucose, fasted blood glucose values that were over a hundred one ten, one twenty one, one seventeen, ninety three, eighty seven, one oh nine. And I was like, what’s going on here? I haven’t put any food. I haven’t put any carbs in my body for a long time. Brad (44m 28s): And that’s when we have a bigger picture here of like, if I’m, you know, greatly restricting my carbohydrates and I’m going out there and doing high difficulty, high intensity workouts, I’m certainly going to be making my own glucose to fuel my exercise habits and whatever else I need to do to get through the day. And so, you know, th that’s when you realize that this is just a gateway to more information and more measuring, and then, you know, seeing how well did you feel like you slept that night? And if it’s a thumbs up or thumbs down, then you can go back, look at the numbers and see what’s going on. And you mentioned briefly someone doing an intervention of, well, let’s ask, you know, could we, could we have this athlete sitting down for a sweet potato at 7:00 PM as part of their strategy to sleep better because it worked a few times and it’s validated by the numbers? Molly (45m 23s): For sure. In what you’re saying with, you know, if you’re following a, more of a strict, you know, diets, it’s very common, you know, and we see this more it’s physiological insulin resistance. So it’s like this adaptive glucose string that arises for individuals who are, you know, on a ketogenic diet or very low carb diet for extended periods of time. So we do see that rise in fasting levels. And I don’t think there’s enough research on it at this point to indicate what they’re not, it’s a particularly a bad thing, but in my eyes, if everything else is great, you know, metabolically, if you get your labs tested and everything looks okay, and that’s kind of like that one indicator that seems offset, I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. Molly (46m 16s): So Brad (46m 16s): You mentioned that you want to see, I mean, that was a big statement that you pay more attention to postprandial glucose than fasting. And so that kind of redirects us nicely to our meal choices and how we do in the aftermath. But you said you want to see a return to baseline in two to three hours. And that strikes me as quite a long time, you know, three hours after lunch. I would, I would hope that I’m still not in this, you know, glucose processing state, but, you know, maybe you can describe that time window from what the research says and, and why it seems so long to the lay person here talking, Molly (46m 55s): Right. So when you eat something like it can, your glucose may not start hit its peak till maybe like an hour and a half or something. So if you think about it, you know, it should be hitting it in that first hour or so, and then start to come back down. But it takes longer than you’d think to start rising. I think that’s kind of a nuance there. Right? So then, you know, coming back down, I would say for the most part in generally healthy people, they come back down to that two to three hour frame. Brad (47m 27s): So when you have a pineapple flavored hot fudge sundae with a Slurpee, it’s still going to take a while to have an extreme spike in glucose? Molly (47m 38s): If it’s pure. Yeah. Great. Just straight sugar. Usually I will see that’s usually when I’ll see like a spike and then it’ll come down down faster because it’s easily processed when there’s other macronutrients involved. So there’s fat involved or, you know, protein, the fat delays, how the glucose is infiltrating into our bloodstream. So say you have a high fat, high starchy meal, like pizza, right? You eat that. You have a super high spike since there’s fat in there, it’s delaying how that carbohydrates being processed. Molly (48m 20s): So then that’s when we see that larger area out of the curve through the, the glucose response. And it’s typical to see like four plus hours until you returned back to baseline from, from those situations. And if you think about it,` your body’s working hard to process that carbohydrate, but also the fats in the mix, like slowing it down so it can take longer. And, you know, then there’s the alternative, right? Where, you know, if you eat something like an apple and you eat it, like probably your glucose is going to spike, come back down relatively early. But if you do have that spike, you can add something like protein or, you know, so maybe you do like a hard boiled egg. Molly (49m 1s): In addition to that, that apple, and you might see a, you probably will see a far more mitigated glucose response. So the protein pretty much like mitigates the response fat can be helpful as well, like in those smaller portion sizes. But I would say the, the fat plus starch, like from more processed food is what are the worst responses, but the fat and protein can be helpful with like more simple whole foods. If that makes sense. Brad (49m 34s): Well, we know not to eat hyper palatable, processed foods, combining processed carbohydrate and fat, not only because of our w what our reading says, but because they hijack the dopamine receptors on the brain and they lead to addictive behavior toward those foods. And if you can think of the top 20 indulgent, popular treats, desserts, they’re all pretty much throwing in processed carbs and fats. So you have ice cream, potato chips, and so on down the line, a milkshake, whatever. But I, I guess just to drill down a little more, you’re going to just grab an apple in the afternoon for a healthy snack as a healthy person. Brad (50m 18s): How do we compare contrast that with having a soda at 3:00 PM versus the apple? Molly (50m 27s): Right? So with like sugar is sugar and our body’s going to respond to it. So with the Coke, you know, or probably to have a blood sugar response, but it’s the influx of the amount of carbohydrates at once. So with an apple, if you think about it, there’s fiber in the mix, right. And it’s a natural foods source. So there are working components in that food that is natural, and our body knows how to break that down versus a Coke. There’s probably, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s so many more carbohydrates coming in at once that our body has that, you know, most of the time has a higher blood sugar response. Molly (51m 11s): So there is a difference in the composition of more processed meals versus more whole foods, right? So obviously I’m going to, you know, if someone’s having a spike from Coke, I would say, you know, an apple is a better response in general because it is a more natural food source, but of course someone might have a higher spike from that. So then, you know, the next step would be okay, how can we manage that spike then from the apple? And, you know, that’s when that protein pairing and the whole idea, like no naked carbs consumed at once can be helpful. So pairing it with a, you know, a protein or fat to help modulate that response. Brad (51m 51s): So we’re envisioning this, this graph, when you open up your app, you see a graph of the glucose numbers going through the hours of the day. So it’s like a, a Richter scale for the earthquake, and we’re not necessarily looking for just a flat line, but we kind of want to have, if there is a, if there is a spike, we want to bring it back within that two to three hours. And also, I would imagine we don’t want to see any dips, well below baseline, because that implies a, an insulin response maybe from the soda. So would that be one of the compare contrast with the apple and the hard boiled egg where you’re, you’re gonna get a, a spike, anytime you eat anything, but then it’s going to kind of gracefully slide down the bunny slope back to back to norm versus this Richter scale where you’re, you’re taking a dive after the soda. Molly (52m 46s): Yeah, definitely. So that’s the whole idea of reactive hypoglycemia. And we see it often with more processed or a larger influx of carbohydrates at once. So your body responds to that influx by producing more insulin, maybe then it than it should. And so you do see that spike, but then you see that huge plummet then afterwards it’s dipping super low into more hypoglycemic ranges. And if, you know, if someone, you know, I see that happen, I ask someone, you know, did you experience any symptoms at this point? Yes. Then, you know, this is something that’s definitely not, you know, a good meal, you should be eating, but I mostly see that reactive hypoglycemic response with more processed foods, then a more whole food. Molly (53m 37s): And you know, that, that protein combination is very helpful for that aspect. Brad (53m 42s): But I have heard thrown around here and there, you made one mention of it where you have certain, I would say weird sensitivities to what is seemingly a healthy food in the, in the health category, on the chart on the wall. So some people do fine with the sweet potato and some people do terribly, but they do fine with a pineapple. Is that validated by the data that you’ve seen from all your members and from research? Molly (54m 13s): What do you think it’s more so like a sensitivity to the food? Brad (54m 16s): Yeah. Like here’s a hundred grams of carbohydrates in a bowl of brown rice. Here’s a hundred grams in a, a pineapple cottage cheese, a blueberry, a bowl, and one, the same person responds adversely to one versus the other. Molly (54m 34s): Yeah. Like in, it’s hard to detect like sensitivities. And I see it rarely because in my mind, I’m like, is it a sensitivity or are you just poorly responding to the carbohydrate? Right. And I think it’s more, you know, there’s so many working variables, but it could be hormonal and degrees of insulin resistance at play. So I think for the most part, you know, in my case, it’s, for example, you know, I may have a smaller degree of insulin resistance because I cannot tolerate that, that carbohydrate well, so it was just earlier signs of it. Whereas someone who is metabolically healthy, they can tolerate it well. Molly (55m 16s): Right. And there’s, yeah, it it’s truly is just dependent on, on the individual and how they respond. So that’s why testing is the best way to go and just see how you respond and recover based on, you know, your own body. So, Brad (55m 32s): Okay. Here’s a weird one from my wife, Mia Moores’s data. And I’m curious if you see anticipatory drops in glucose before a meal or anticipatory spikes before a meal where we’re thinking we were reading the data accurately and going wait, that was, that was an hour before we sat down and had food after a long period of time. You know? So I wonder if any of there there’s weird things that people report and can’t get explained. And if you see some trends where you’re answering the same question frequently, Molly (56m 7s): Well, with the lower dips, I would say, yeah, like you, a lot of the time someone might feel hungry at this time and that could be associated with those lower dips. So my suggestion, the suggestion there would be, you know, eating something, help alleviate that with a glucose spike. That’s more interesting. And I would say there might be another variable at play. So, you know, what were you exercising or was there heat involved or something else? But I usually won’t see a spike, like an anticipatory spike, but I’ll see a dip which promotes that hunger. Molly (56m 47s): I’m trying to think of other things that, you know, someone might be curious about with when they’re measuring their glucose data. And I think a lot of the times, you know, especially cause we have a lot of data oh. And carnivore people. So they try out a lot of the keto products. Right. So think that, because it says keto on the label that, you know, you can eat it and you’re not going to have a blood sugar response, but there’s so many nuances to that. And I think a lot of times we’ll get super confused cause I’ll eat these keto products and they still see a glucose response and other people, they might not. So it, and again, it’s just more education. So it’s like, it’s still at the end of the day is a processed food. Molly (57m 28s): Right. So, and you know, some people, Brad (57m 30s): This show is sponsored by keto snacks. Here’s the commercial eat this thing in a package or box or wrapper, and you’ll be fine, don’t worry. Molly (57m 40s): But yeah, at least I see it all the time. And you know, I always encourage someone to try them out because if, if you know, it’s not the best response and maybe you should, you know, remove it and replace it with more of a whole food product. Right. That’s the ideal here that we’re a more whole foods. Brad (57m 58s): This show is sponsored by Brad’s Macadamia Masterpiece, the whole food processed, delicious. It’s a wonderful snack. And it probably won’t spike your glucose unless you have a weird sensitivity to it. Tell me about how heat, dehydration and a workout might show up on your chart. How, how it plays out with blood glucose. Molly (58m 22s): Yeah. So Brad (58m 22s): it’s not altogether of saying each one, we don’t want to go and work out and get dehydrated, but you, you mentioned heat, which I, I have no idea how that might influence blood glucose. So I threw that in, but I also think dehydration could be something that has a, has a profound response and then workouts in general. Molly (58m 43s): Yeah. So he, especially now that it’s been summertime. I’ve seen spikes all the time, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing. It’s more so I believe it’s, it’s through like we’re measuring the interstitial fluid with the continuous glucose monitor. So it’s something with fluid alterations there, but you know, someone might have a spike from being outside, you know, sunbathing, but that’s not a concern to me. It’s something I see all the time. So he’s fine. Even if you go to your shower or your sauna, very normal to see that, that glucose with dehydration. Molly (59m 27s): I see it with, if I’m looking at an exercise, for example, at sometimes, you know, something that I’ll suggest, if you know, they’re working out in a fasted state, you know, it’s normal to see a glucose response from a higher intensity exercise and, you know, it’s our body, you know, producing the, the it’s the hepatic glucose output. That’s fueling that exercise. So it’s a normal thing. It’s not a bad thing. It’s, you know, it’s not insulin mediated. So a glucose response from a workout is different than a glucose response from food, but with high duration, yeah. Molly (1h 0m 7s): That’s something that I’ll consider if someone is having a higher spike and they’re trying to get it down and they’re concerned, even though it might not be super concerning hydration status can, can be helpful there. So, you know, feeling with electrolytes and, or, you know, water of course can be helpful there. And it’s, it’s, it’s definitely something that is seen, but it’s, you know, not as often with exercise. As I was discussing, it’s normal to see a response from that with higher intensity exercises is normal. See a spike, but generally speaking, we want to keep levels that at least below like 180. Molly (1h 0m 49s): So beyond that eight, like say if you’re doing a workout it’s super high intensity and you hit 200, there is, you know, it would be blood vessel damage that’s occurring at this point. So I would either suggest, you know, lowering the intensity or we can work in manipulating or adding, you know, fuel before. And, you know, I usually experiment with facet, state versus carbohydrate beforehand versus, or just a protein source beforehand. So everyone kind of varies differently depending on, you know, the different factors. So I usually, I just like to experiment. I’m just because I’ve seen so much data and there’s no, you know, direct correct answer for anyone. Molly (1h 1m 35s): So exploration is really the only answer and we can only discover that through trying out these different things. So it’s super exciting when someone is open to that and we can actually see the effects. So, but with, you know, so that’s with higher intensity exercise and seeing those, those spikes, but with more low-intensity, so something like walking or you’re going really slow on the elliptical or something like that, it’s normal to see a glucose dip dispose of any excess glucose. For example, if you have a high spike after a meal, walking is a, an excellent way to help bring those levels back down sooner, especially later on at night, when we’re, we have a decreased insulin sensitivity in general, it’s going to be harder. Molly (1h 2m 22s): It’s more likely to see that, that larger area under the curve. So, you know, that walk after your dinnertime meal, even if it’s 10 minutes is, can be super effective in bringing your glucose levels down. So, and then with more like strength training, it depends on the intensity as well, but usually I’ll just see like a small budge. So, you know, it’s, there is difference in, you know, low intensity strength training, no more aerobic high intensity training. So if someone does test out their blood sugar and they do see it as spike and, you know, from, from exercise, it’s completely normal and expected and we just want to avoid hitting those super super high levels Brad (1h 3m 6s): You mentioned area under the curve, a couple of times that scientific term, it might be defined as spending as little time as possible in that no man’s land where your blood glucose is higher than your baseline, and it’s lingering there for hours after the meal. So I guess the goal is to kind of tighten that area under the curve. Is that an accurate definition? Molly (1h 3m 29s): Yeah, so we’re thinking conceptually, like if we’re looking at data, you know, if you see a spike that, you know, hits 110 and then it comes back down in two hours, you know, that’s a smaller area under the curve or versus if you have a spike to, you know, 155 and then it’s sitting up there and then comes down in a lower where there’s a larger portion under that curve. So that’s that area under the curve. So we want to have like more tighter regulation of that. So again, that just plays into how we’re processing the meal, Brad (1h 4m 3s): Molly, we got a lot of info to, to, to sort out here what a, what a great, great talk. Thank you so much for taking the time. I think people will be highly interested in learning more at Nutrisense. I have a discount for my listeners. I’ll convey that. And the one thing that I’m curious about as the, as the 27 dieticians are there waiting for new members to join, this to me, I believe it’s a very formal education in whether you’re getting a degree in nutrition certified dietician, which is way more studying. We’re kind of talking about USDA, American Dietary Association, very traditional type of, you know, methodology. Brad (1h 4m 52s): And so I’m wondering, sounds like you did a little bit of your own journey, especially with your own health problems, but when people emerge from this area of training, how does that kind of pair up with the progressive health or the ancestral health movement? Molly (1h 5m 9s): Yeah, so, I mean, ultimately we’re all like as dieticians, we’re all certified under the same umbrella and right. This a field that is new. So we don’t expect, you know, the new dieticians coming in. Like maybe they have more experience in functional medicine or integrative medicine, but a lot of it comes through like self exploration and there’s so much information out there now. So it shouldn’t that person who’s going to go out there and, you know, search for, for more information through listening to podcasts or books or, you know, any other way to explore more reasonings behind everything. Molly (1h 5m 55s): So again, we’re the dietetics field we’re trained under these, you know, certain, you know, regulations, but it just takes the, the people who are, you know, have that curious mind to explore other ideas. So yeah, it’s, we’ve, we’ve formed an excellent team. It’s, it’s so much fun and it’s, it’s, it’s exciting watching everything grow. So, Brad (1h 6m 19s): And when you’re interacting one-on-one with the client, I suppose you’re stopping short of dictating dietary recommendations or a certain diet. And if they announced that they’re plant-based high carbohydrate eater, you’re just going to kind of help them analyze the data. And I don’t know, maybe make some gentle suggestions about just like you said, protein pairing and things like that. And then they can, they can take an, a run with it just to be just to be clear. It’s not like you’re, it’s not the Nutrisense diet. It’s the Nutrisense technology helping you sort out, whether this crazy diet that you’ve decided to follow is contributing to your health, or it could be a red flag or a yellow flag as you call it. Molly (1h 6m 59s): Exactly. Like we don’t promote any sort of diet. We promote, you know, what works for that individual persons. So we base it off of what we’re seeing in the data, their health history, and, you know, we make our recommendations from there, but we trust, you know, it’s always, we want to work with the person, you know, where they’re at and, you know, we make our suggestions based off of that. So we’re never like forcing anything upon anyone. We’re just purely providing that data, providing the education, giving the information that we know and, you know, maybe they might not, it might not resonate with them like right then and there, but like maybe two years from now, they’ll be like, oh yeah, I forgot. Molly (1h 7m 40s): I did that. And I learned this and I was not responding. Maybe I should make this change now. So it is just it’s information for the person to, you know, make better decisions for Brad (1h 7m 52s): Them. Yeah, no judgment. Just a three out of 10 score for that bag of dried mangoes that you killed on the drive home from Costco. No offense just here it is on your chart. Thank you very much. Oh boy. Molly Downey. Great show listeners can learn more at Nutrisense N UT R I S E N S E. And I think it was super fun. Keep up the great work. Thanks for listening to everybody. Molly (1h 8m 16s): So great talking to you, Brad Brad (1h 8m 21s): Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows. Subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. Brad (1h 9m 6s): It helps raise the profile of the B.rad podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.rad.

SaveSave

Time for some interesting Q&A from devoted B.rad podcast listeners.

Thanks for the thoughtful questions and comments that make a great contribution to the overall enjoyment, knowledge acquisition, and community spirit with podcast listeners from around the world. 

 We’ll cover the logistics and benefits of limiting digestive function to a maximum time window of 12 hours (for example, how caffeinated beverages, herbal tea, and even supplement pills like multivitamins interrupt the fasting process), and how the body works most efficiently (in terms of cell repair, immune function, anti-inflammatory) in a fasted state. We hear from an old-time endurance athlete wondering about how keto aligns with endurance training, and also how to reconcile the enthusiastic voices promoting disparate dietary strategies, from plant-based to ancestral. We talk about the validity of the one-mile time trial as an excellent longevity predictor at age 50 (Cooper Institute research), and the rationale and benefits for consuming a maximum nutrient density diet featuring forgotten gems like organ meats—or taking organ supplements if you can’t seem to include organs and bone broth in your diet. Send more comments and questions to podcast@bradventures.com!

TIMESTAMPS:

Raymond has a question about drinking water in that 12-hour fasting window suggested in the book, Two Meals a Day. Give your digestive system a break every day.  [02:13]

Your eating is tied to your circadian rhythm. You should think about trying to put the evening meal before dark when possible. [04:27]

There are studies about “dry fasting” but that is for the extremely advanced. [07:22]

Scott asks “Do you really think Keto is the way to go these days?” Brad compares the carnivore diet with the plant-based diet and asks the individual to experiment to decide what is best for them. [09:34]

Consuming refined sugars, grains, and industrial seed oils is the biggest problem. [15:50]

If you are going to go keto, be sure you get your electrolytes dialed. [18:44]

If you under-consume protein, you are going to experience intense cravings for high-protein food. The same goes for carbohydrates. [24:26]

Ewan is asking about his urge to run a mile after he has done his sprint workouts. He wants to go for time. [26:37]

Ewan also mentions how he is eating liver and feels great. But use caution if you are eating raw liver or egg yolks. Brad talks about eating animal organ supplements.  [30:00]

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (1m 30s): Okay. Okay. Time for Q and A, Listeners. What do you say? We have some great questions today. Thank you so much for writing in to podcast@bradventures.com. Let’s get to them. And this will be a big challenge for me to answer a bunch of them and not go off on 12 minute tangents to frame an entire show, which is what I did last time we got going on Q and A. Hopefully all agree to wonderful benefit because the topics are really important. And my main goal here is to cover questions that are of broad interest rather than specific. My left knee hurts when I go upstairs, what do you think? Brad (2m 13s): I think you should go see a doctor. Okay. There’s that one, not a big interest to the broad audience. So amazingly the listeners are doing a great job, teeing up some really important and thoughtful questions that bring to light important issues for all of us to reflect. So that’s my intro. And then we go to Raymond who says, I just finished the book Two Meals a Day. I loved it. It was so much more than a nutrition book and question regarding the 12 hour window recommended for no digestive function. Does that include not drinking water for those 12 hours? Well, no, because the water would be the prime example of something that does not require a digestive effort. Brad (2m 59s): And so it’s everything but water and the term to describe it, I believe used in the book was anything, any Xenobiotic substance, anything that requires the digestive system to break down and metabolize. So that would include herbal tea. That doesn’t have calories that would include caffeine. That would include a vitamin pill that doesn’t have calories. All these things require digestive function and they turn on the digestive system thereby turning on your clock for purposes of time-restricted feeding, and time-restricted digestive function. So the research from Dr. Panda at UC San Diego, talking about time-restricted feeding and the health benefits and the critical importance of giving your digestive system in general a break every day. Brad (3m 48s): That’s why we get this 12 hour maximum time window for digestive function each day. So you do not want to activate digestive function on a longer timeframe than that. This was an interesting one because a lot of people were tripped up, including myself, including Sisson, where we’re looking at our daily pattern. And let’s say, you’re up in the morning at 7:00 AM with a bag of herbal tea. And you’re drinking that thing and doing your crossword puzzle. And then at 8:30 PM, you’re having two squares of 85% dark chocolate. As you enjoy evening leisure times. Brad (4m 28s): Oops, you just busted outside of the 12 hour window, even though the herbal tea didn’t have any calories. And even though you might not have eaten anything until 12 noon as a devoted fasting person in the 16/8 window, but you lit up your digestive system in the morning when you first consumed the, the tea or swallow the pill or whatever. Now, I don’t want people to get too fixated on this. And the fact that you’re going outside of your 12 hour window for a couple of squares of dark chocolate in the evening, and a bag of tea in the morning in the grand scheme of things is completely minimal, right? But it’s just something to think about, especially the idea of toning down digestive function in the evening. Brad (5m 14s): And so it’s now being more and more established that all organs in the body, including the digestive organs are very strongly aligned to your overall circadian rhythm. We usually think of circadian rhythm in terms of light and dark cycles and sleeping and waking up. But the liver, the digestive tract, even the, the heart, lungs, the muscles, there’s a good time to exercise. There’s a inferior time to exercise when your body’s less adaptable to exercise. All of these things are strongly tied to circadian function. And so the digestive tract is preferring to rest when it gets dark outside. Brad (5m 56s): So if by as well as you can try to get the majority of your calories before it gets dark. Now, if you’re in Stockholm or Edmonton or New York city in the winter time, and it gets dark at 4 45, and you’re usually sitting down with the family and trying to enjoy your life and having dinner at 6:30 or 7:00 PM, that’s, you know, that’s, that’s going to be okay, we’ll, we’ll live to see another day. But as, as, as best, you can try to put those meals earlier in the evening and allow for a nice period of winding down in concert with the setting of the sun in your environment year round. Brad (6m 40s): So that means in the summer, yes, you can way with late summer evenings by the swimming pool and having a picnic or a barbecue, and you’re not finishing, eating until 8:45 PM whereby in the winter, it’s been dark already for five hours. That’s going to be a little different, right? A little more of a health objection. So aligning your sleep habits with your circadian rhythm, as well as your digestive habits. So that was Raymond’s question. Does that include not drinking water for 12 hours? No, it doesn’t. So if you need to sip some water, as soon as you wake up or before you go to bed, we’re not counting that on your clock. As an interesting aside, they have some studies on dry fasting. Brad (7m 23s): It’s now become a popular biohacking category where not only are you not consuming calories, you are not even drinking water. So you’re providing a hormetic stressor to your body. And in turn, the body responds with this kind of optimal stress response, optimal fight or flight stimulation due to the stressful nature of lacking water and calories. And you’re getting these purported benefits. And some of the research has showed that the spurs fat loss, this spurs improved glucose tolerance has an anti-inflammatory effect. And there’s a lot of data from Ramadan, the Islamic holiday, where people are not consuming food or drink until sunset for 40 days. Brad (8m 14s): So that’s a big deal. And the Ramadan observers come out pretty well with the research. I remember the great runner Elgar Ruse from Morocco talking about how he’s trying to train through Ramadan and having kind of a tough time. And if I’m my memory serves me, I believe there was a lot of food and drink consumed there. As soon as that sun went over the mountains, the guy who’s done, you know, 12 times, 400 meters in 54 seconds with a 200 jog recovery. That guy wants to go rehydrate and refuel. So funny stuff there, but I would put the dry fast in the extremely advanced “don’t try this at home” Brad (8m 54s): category and probably something not even to consider until you’re well down the road with exploring deep into the world of fasting and how your body responds and certainly drinking and hydrating appropriately for the duration of whatever fasting your experimenting with. That said, the word fasting is often misused and grammatically. It means not consuming any calories, right? So when you hear people talk about their juice fast, or their brown rice fast, or this kind of fast, or that kind of fast kale smoothie fast, that’s not really fasting. And so let’s reserve the use of the word for times when we’re not consuming calories. Brad (9m 34s): Okay. We all agree. Thank you very much. Okay. Here is the next one. Oh, we’re moving at such a pace. And this comes from Scott with a nice long reminiscing of his days back in triathlon times as a former Hawaii Ironman. “I have your old book,” Scott says Breakthrough Training. Yes. It’s now been rereleased on Amazon. So if you want a really fun triathlon book, if you’re into the multi-sport scene, it’s called How to Improve Your Triathlon Time. Go search for it on Amazon. Yeah, get it. It’s a double entendre title. Oh, isn’t that cute? Thank you. So Scott is talking about how he remembers the valley of fatigue from over-training and triathlon days. Brad (10m 18s): Now he’s 55. I would try to train like all my old heroes back in the day, Pigg, Molina, Tinley, Mark Allen, the incredible Germans that train their butts off every single day. It was amazing what some of these top athletes were capable of doing. And now he comes to a few questions. Do you really think keto is the way to go these days? I have the books that you and Sisson have have written, and I’m wondering how that lines up with a bunch of other things. One of them would be doing endurance training and trying to be keto. Dave Scott seems to have made that jump. Scott writes and yeah, Dave Scott talks a lot about the benefits of this ketogenic diet. Brad (10m 60s): So that’s interesting cause he was the carb king of the planet when he was winning the Hawaii iron mans. And then he also wants to ask about reconciling with information from people like our buddy Rip Esselstyn and his engine two diets. So Rip is the plant strong guy and he strongly advocates the plant-based approach to eating. His father Caldwell Esselstyn Cleveland clinic lotted for reversing heart disease through dietary intervention. And so these guys are firmly in the plant based camp and they are not interested in the benefits of animal foods and in fact, recommend excluding them. So that’s a pretty huge leap across the aisle to interact with people that are saying something that you know, could be considered diametrically opposed to let’s say the recent popularity of the carnivore diet and the animal-based diet where you’re putting plants on the sidelines for an assortment of reasons. Brad (11m 56s): One of them being that the animal foods are the most nutrient dense foods on the planet. Two that many people have sensitivities to the natural toxins can contained in all matter of plant foods. And by excluding those, they experienced an improvement in nagging autoimmune and inflammatory conditions. So gee, this is where we’re going to turn it over to you, the listener to do some personal experimentation and do some of your own research and critical thinking. And, and open-mindedness to see what seems sensible to you. And a lot of the plant-based folks are in that camp due to the moral objections of the industrial food complex, putting out this nasty process meats and convince KFO animals, concentrated animal feeding, operation animals that are living in dirty conditions, not friendly to the planet. Brad (12m 50s): The carbon footprint is high and the animal is not treated well and all those things. So I think trying to find some common ground here, when we talk about an animal based diet, we’re talking about doing your absolute best to source the most nutritious and sustainably raised animals. So rather than getting the tuna, the kind of tuna that’s caught in the big nets that also trap the poor dolphin, we’re talking about pole cut or line caught tuna. We’re talking about emphasizing the oily cold water fish that had the most omega-3 benefits and the least concerns with toxins like mercury. We’re talking about staying away from the predator fish at the top of the food chain because they have high concentrations of toxins. Brad (13m 30s): And on down the line with our eggs, we’re trying to source, ideally, pasture raised eggs with the distinction of humanely raised animal welfare certified all these stamps of approval on the carton that indicate the animal was treated in a superior manner to the feedlot chicken, the conventional egg that has vastly lower levels of important nutrients like omega threes due to their crappy diet and their lack of activity being cooped up in the, the facility rather than being allowed to roam free. And the true pasture raised egg that you’re going to get from the local hobbyist or farmer is running around in the open lands, getting exercise, getting fresh air,, sunlight and having their natural diet of bugs, insects high omega-3 from eating grasses and things like that. Brad (14m 20s): And so you’re having a far superior nutritional product to the mechanized foods. So I think we can all agree, whatever foods you choose, you’re going to want to go for the best source. Same with the plant kingdom. You want to go to the local farmer’s market, buy what’s in season, straight from the farmer to you, what do they call it? Farm, fork to table. And so we can make good choices within the parameters that we’ve set, but I will say this not to get too controversial, but if you’re choosing a plant-based diet, you are proceeding down a high risk path. It’s very difficult to dispute that because you happen to be excluding many of the most nutrient dense foods on earth. Brad (15m 2s): And so if you are excluding a giant swath of foods due to your moral objections or whatever, perceived health benefits, boy, you got a, a challenge on your hands, especially if you’re not genetically adapted to do things like convert the beta carotene that you get from your carrots and your other yellow and orange category foods. If you’re not good at converting that into the fully formed vitamin A known as retinol that comes directly to you when you eat things like liver and other foods high in vitamin A. You could put yourself at high risk of nutritional deficiencies. And we also have to acknowledge that this is a departure from the ancestral diet that fueled human evolution for two and a half million years, which was an animal based diet. Brad (15m 51s): Of course there was variation across the globe where humans populated and migrated and had different food sources, but by and large, we’re quite adaptable. We can do really well on a variety of diets. So we have to figure out what works for us personally. So hopefully I answered how to reconcile between the, the plant-based message of people like Ripper and then the, you know, the paleo or the ancestral diet that listeners maybe are more familiar with for my lineup of guests. But I did have a great show with Rip Esselstyn. So you can go listen to that and see how much common ground we have when we’re talking about the number one prominent goal is to get rid of the junk food. Brad (16m 31s): And that’s indisputable that we do not need these refined sugars, grains, and industrial seed oils in the diet. I don’t think anyone is out there touting that this should be the centerpiece of your diet. Well, I mean, a lot of plant-based people are end up consuming a lot of processed carbohydrates because of their dearth of choices to get their calories in every day. So I should qualify that. But in general, you know, over consuming these refined foods is where the real problem lies. And if you can ditch that stuff and move on from a processed food diet, you’re going to be looking really good. This is also a way to kind of reconcile some of the fabulous nutritional data and propaganda. Brad (17m 13s): That’s arguing that, oh my gosh, this plant-based diet is going to be a lifesaver for you. And you’re going to be come an amazing athlete and make the NFL or the Olympics like the documentary that was widely viewed called Game Changers. Peter Atia called it. I just listened to his show quote. It was absolutely horrible, disgusting example of propaganda. So if Peter Atia says that he was a pretty measured guy, that’s gonna give me pause. And I’m going to go doing further research for myself. For example, watching Chris Kresser on the Joe Rogan podcast, talk for three hours, breaking down the inaccuracies and the propaganda presented in that show with a beautiful three hour presentation with 87 PowerPoint slides. Brad (17m 60s): So think what you want, but before we jump on whatever bandwagon, let’s go and look a little deeper than the slick documentary, that’s going to try to convince you in untoward manner. Okay. How’s that everybody? And I think I covered Scott there, but yeah, regarding Dave Scott switching over to keto and trying to balance both endurance training goals with ketogenic diet, that can be a potential problem because if you’re out there working hard and burning a lot of calories and then you’re limiting your carbohydrate intake, you better make darn sure that everything is dialed in beautifully, or you have the potential to struggle. Brad (18m 44s): One thing that’s come across in the last several years of keto becoming more and more popular are the propensity for electrolyte imbalances. When you eliminate a lot of those carbohydrate containing foods in the name of restricting carbs for keto, you’re also limiting your intake and limiting your retention of important minerals and electrolytes, especially sodium potassium, magnesium. That’s why the guys at L M N T Robb Wolf, Luis Villasenor make this wonderful product, these little packets where you’re getting a huge dose of electrolytes and sodium to help keep things, right. If you do make a major dietary transition. Brad (19m 26s): So if you’re going to go keto, you sure as hell, better get your electrolytes dialed. You better eat sufficient amounts of the nutrient dense calories that are going to fuel your training in the absence of whatever carbs you’re removing from your diet. So like Dr. Tommy Wood said on his show. He counsels his athletes to eat as much nutritious food as possible until they gain one pound of body fat. And then turn the dial down a little bit. And he made the, the great one-liner talking about reviewing the, the food diaries of his athletes, and someone will say breakfast two eggs and half an avocado. And Tommy’s quick back was, Hey man, eat a real breakfast, make it six eggs and a full avocado. Brad (20m 7s): Because again, if you’re in this restrictive and narrowly focused ketogenic diet, the six eggs and the full avocado are probably going to serve you really well. If you’re going to go out there and put in tons of hours of training. So I guess my last note here is that there are a lot of athletes succeeding in this low carbohydrate fat adapted endurance training pattern, Zack Bitter, probably one of the most prominent ones, Timothy Olson, who won Western states 100 mile twice. Also in that low carb camp, the participants in the Volek Faster study, F A S T E R study run by Dr. Jeff Volek at the university of Connecticut was amazing. Brad (20m 50s): Conclusions came out of that study that showed that athletes who had become adapted to a high fat, low carbohydrate diet could perform really well and recover really well, including restock their glycogen overnight without eating an appreciable amount of carbohydrates. So we always associate a carb loading carb reloading with absolutely essential to recover from these crazy workouts. But now if you become a fat adapted athlete, you can do amazing things. And what is the advantage? There are several, one of them is you don’t need onboard calories when you’re trying to exercise or trying to perform for hours on end when the digestive system is not in a good state to digest and assimilate calories. Brad (21m 32s): If you’re doing an all day hike or riding your bicycle a hundred miles, if you can get by on fewer calories, that’s going to be a performance advantage right there. And so when you get better and better and better at burning body fat, and then making ketones to fuel brain function, when your muscles are burning, mostly fatty acids, that most of them are on storage. You don’t have to ingest a lot of fat to ride a hundred miles because you’ve got plenty on your body, even if you’re a skinny elite ultra marathon runner. So there’s a lot of potential for endurance breakthroughs, especially at the elite level and also at the recreational level. But this is a, it’s a pretty challenging path to go on. Brad (22m 16s): One thing, one potential concern I see is the propensity for over-training and overly stressful training patterns by the majority of people immersed into the endurance lifestyle. So if you’re going to do too much as a routine, you know, beat yourself up here and there, and, you know, have these, these crashes and burns and highs and lows and training, which are so common, and you’re not going to bother to refuel with sufficient amount of carbs because you’re trying the ketogenic diet, that’s going to be a recipe for breakdown, burnout, illness, injury, disaster. Same with the CrossFit athlete, where you’re performing a very high glycolytic workout. Brad (22m 59s): That’s a high glucose burning workout because of the intensity level and the duration, and then going home and not refueling with carbohydrates. You’re going to have to get really good at a few different things. One of them is fat adaptation making ketones, and the other one is balancing your training so that you don’t show up that up at the gym in a fatigued glycogen, depleted state, and bang out yet another epic CrossFit session and go home. And yet again, restrict carbohydrates and add to the overall stress score and the stress factors at play here, because think about it, carb restriction and fasting are, are stressors to the body. You’re not giving yourself the energy that they’re used to. Brad (23m 42s): And then depleting cellular energy during a workout is stressor to the body. In my case, I talk about this a lot where I’m trying to do these high intensity high glycolytic workouts and be in the older age group. So that’s another stressor to the body that I’m trying to act like a 20 year old, a 30 year old, whatever, and still have ambitious athletic goals, even in the 55 plus age category. And if you mix those altogether and you overdo it, you overshoot your stress capabilities that can be, you know, limiting your progress and even worse, putting you into a hole. So for that reason, I am in favor of monitoring your appetite carefully. Brad (24m 26s): And if you do have those occasions where let’s say, you’re trying to adhere to whatever dietary pattern, if it’s keto, if it’s carnivore, if it’s vegan plant-based and you experience intense cravings for things like high protein foods, Chris Kresser sites, this a really important point that if you under consume protein, which is difficult to do, but possible if you’re in some extreme diet, you’re going to experience intense cravings for high protein foods. And you’re going to feel like crap, and you’re going to get emaciated and have, you know, a bad looking face. Maybe your hair is going to fall out weird, stuff like that. So the body and the brain are really good at getting you what you need. Brad (25m 8s): And the same goes for carbohydrates. I think if you’re sitting there at the end of the day, a long training session has been done and you have your little steak and two pieces of broccoli, and you’re really dreaming about a sweet potato. That’s probably an indication that you want to do a strategic inclusion of additional carbohydrates. So I guess my, my vote is that in and around your high stress, challenging workouts is probably a good time to consider increased carbohydrate intake. And I would say afterward, not before, I’ve heard people talk about, yeah, get some carbs before you train hard and that’ll give you a performance boost. And I think that’s kind of that’s, it doesn’t make sense to me personally, that you’re going to need a pre workout dose of carbohydrates. Brad (25m 56s): There’s plenty sitting there and your muscles, unless you’re starving or coming off a 48 hour fast. So I wouldn’t worry about that, but afterward I would take care of your appetite and your cravings for sure. All right. Good question by Scott. And then we go all the way down to Melbourne, Melbourne from Ewan. Brad (26m 37s): Enjoy your podcasts very much down here. Isn’t that cool. I love hearing from people all over the world and then the letters come in from Africa and Finland and Melbourne just, I can’t get it. Get over it. It’s so fun. Thank you so much for listening so far away. And also if you’re close to my base here on the west coast, that’s cool too. We’re friendly with everybody. So Ewan’s been listening for a long time to the primal podcast, primal endurance, get over yourself. And now the B.Rad podcast, incorporating many principles into his life. He’s doing my favorite sprint workout of six times 80 meter sprints. And he feels like he’s done a good job, but then as he’s cooling down, thinking that the workouts over, he has this urge to run a mile for time and see if he can do it at an impressive around six minute mile for 55-year-old. That’s extremely impressive. Anything under eight minutes. This is from the research from the Cooper Institute and Texas A and M. Brad (27m 19s): They did a huge study and they drew this incredibly strong correlation between one’s mild time at age 50 and one’s longevity and health potential. So if you have an excellent mealtime at age 50, you have a strong predictability to live till age 84 in good health and good vitality. And if you have a crappy time at age 50, you have a six-fold increase or something crazy to disease risk factors and demise over the ensuing decades. And here are the time standards that are relevant. So at 50 you go out there and we’re talking about an all out mile for time. Brad (27m 60s): We’re not talking about jogging a mile and timing it for once, but this is like a real race where imagine the people in the lab coats with their clipboards watching you, and they want to see really what you got in there. So pushing yourself pretty hard. And look, if you’re not a runner, you can probably correlate this to your activity of choice, whether it’s cycling or swimming or rowing or some all out performance test that takes you an appropriate length of time. That can give you a great indication of your fitness, especially if you retest annually or every five years or whatever you want to do to see keeping tabs on your fitness. Right? And so the Cooper Institute research said that females under nine minutes and males under eight minutes are in that outstanding category. Brad (28m 44s): And if you are a female over 13 minutes or male, over 12 minutes and 12 or 13 minutes is equating with kind of a slow jog. A brisk walk would be about a 15 minute mile. So it’s better than a brisk walk. So it’s a little bit of jogging to make it around the track four times, or let’s say if you mixed jogging with fast paced walking and back to jogging. So someone who’s in decent shape, but that’s not a ton to ask right. There is it. You should be able to run four laps or a mile down the bike path with your fancy watch that tracks distance. You should be able to get through that in under 12 or 13 minutes, even if you’re 50 years old. Now, if you’re zooming around in eight minutes, nine minutes, that’s spectacular. Brad (29m 28s): And that shows that you’ve made a tremendous commitment to fitness. That’s going to benefit you for years to come. So Ewan is busting out a six minute mile after his sprint worked out at 55 years old is the X. Brad is the extra mile impacting on the benefits of my sprint training. Would it be better to do on a different day or do it once in a while? Well, that’s a pretty fantastic workout is my answer. And I think, you know, you’re putting this into the category of a high intensity sprint workout. So you do your sprints, you run your mile. You’re 55 years old. I wouldn’t complain about anything. I’d say that’s pretty fantastically awesome. And I aspire to go out there and put in another mile time trial myself. Brad (30m 8s): I haven’t done it in several years. And I remember coming right in at six minutes. This is a few years ago now. And the funny thing for me was it felt like 4 47 did back in the old days. I mean, I was up on my feet. My stride was excellent. My power was good. I didn’t die. I was strong all the way through the finish. And I’m like, yeah, that was a 4 47. I look at my watch. It says six minutes. I’m like, what the heck are you talking about? It doesn’t make sense, but such as the way that fitness works, where your perceived exertion is still high, your perceived performance level, but the, the watch doesn’t lie. So I would say keep up the good work human. Brad (30m 48s): And finally, another followup question from him I’ve recently started taking MOFO and you’ve also motivated, motivate me to eat some slices of raw liver with salt. And it actually tastes quite good. Isn’t that nice? And yes, I like to take my liver in frozen raw form, heavily salted because it’s super palatable. You don’t have that rubbery unpleasant liver taste. And so I’ll either slice those up and eat them raw, or I’ll throw the chunks. Pre-sliced chunks of raw liver into my smoothie. So I got my liver game going. That’s a good solution for me because I was never too good at cooking it. And I didn’t really enjoy the taste. And if you overcook it, like everyone’s familiar liver and onions meals from back in the day. Brad (31m 33s): That’s okay. But remember that you’re losing out on a lot of the nutritional benefits. If you cook the heck out of liver versus eating a slice of raw liver. Now eating wrong liver comes with a slight risk of foodborne illness, just as consuming raw egg yolks that also go in my smoothie. So I’m going to qualify this here and make a disclaimer that I shouldn’t even recommend something like that, unless you decide to do it for yourself, but I’m giving you the factual information that a raw piece of liver or a raw egg yolk has vastly more nutrition before it gets it’s cooked. So that said if you’re going to do something crazy, like consume raw liver, be sure that you source grassfed liver product, because we want to stay away from that animal that was raised in the concentrated animal, feeding operations, fed hormones, pesticides, and antibiotics. Brad (32m 29s): We know that the liver is the control tower for all manner of metabolic function and distribution of nutrients into the bloodstream. So guess what? That’s what makes liver the number one most nutritious food pound for pound on the planet. And it also makes liver a place where toxins and impurities can be concentrated. A lot of people confuse this to think that liver is a nasty thing to eat, and you should never touch it because of all the toxins that are in the liver. And it’s also the place where the most nutrition is concentrated, but you do want to source good quality liver. That’s going to be free from some of those objections that we see from the feedlot animals. Brad (33m 12s): And I’m also writing back in detail to Ewan that not only do I take six to 12 pills of MOFO every day, but I’m probably taking 12 to 18 assorted, other pills from assorted other Ancestral Supplements products. I like the prostate and the lung and like the blood vitality and this stuff has become super popular. You can learn all about them, just go to my shopping page and click on the link. You get a 10% discount for putting in BRAD10 as the code. And if you’re not up on your organ meat consumption game, this is a great way to cover that base. That very, very important dietary base of getting organ meats and nose to tail consumption back into your diet. Brad (33m 59s): We’ve disgracefully ignored that in modern eating habits ancestral cuisine on the other hand features a lot of organ meat consumption. And so it’s time to reclaim that instead of just focusing on the muscle meats, the, the small segments of the animals that we emphasize. And so getting liver into your diet one way or the other as we described or cooking it, searing it lightly on each side and consuming it in that form or getting it into your smoothie, consuming it raw. And if that all fails, just pound a bunch of supplements, and these really are the best multivitamins you could ever consume because they’re in the exact bioavailable form from the animal. Brad (34m 41s): They’re completely unprocessed. There’s no additives, no other agents in there, except for the grass fed cattle from New Zealand, completely pure. And the, the organ in question that they’re putting into the capsule. And so, yeah, that’s a plug right there. That’s a commercial in the middle of the show. But I’m pretty enthusiastic about it. And I believe for some reason, since 2019, I’ve had some great improvements in an assortment of health, fitness, and lifestyle markers, specifically not requiring a afternoon nap. So desperately on so many days, recovering faster from workouts, being able to perform at a higher level. Brad (35m 26s): You can see my morning routine, which is getting more and more difficult. And I have no problem doing that every day. I wasn’t in such a groove prior to now, it’s been, you know, three or four years where I’ve had a, a kind of a burst in performance. And I attribute that to numerous things. One of them is this aggressive consumption of the organ capsules. So I’m really high on this. I feel like I’m really covering all my nutritional basis and minimizing the chances of developing nutritional deficiencies, which I do believe I have suffered from in the past, despite my attention, careful attention to healthy eating because the athlete asks a lot from their body. It’s easy to get deficient. Brad (36m 6s): It’s easy to get broken down, especially as you continue to perform into the higher age group. So all those listening in the higher age groups and still have athletic goals. Like the wonderful Ewan down in Melbourne, you got to pay close attention to your eating habits and do everything you can to kind of throw in some of these performance supplements that have been proven to be really helpful. So for me, not even that, I was asked this question, but I’m mentioning my devotion to animal organ supplements, especially the MOFO formulation that I co-promote with Ancestral Supplements that contains testicles, prostate, heart, liver, and bone marrow, specifically to improve male hormone function, male hormone optimization. Brad (36m 50s): That’s my that’s my go-to of course my favorite, and then a bunch of other ones that I mentioned, and also getting that raw liver into the diet, the egg yolks from my super nutrition smoothie, and then some other favorite products that I’ve been taking on a consistent basis are collagen at the behest of Mark Sisson taking 20 to 30 grams of that every day. Dr. Cate Shanahan places tremendous importance on this, that she contends that your college and health, your connective tissue health is directly correlated with your longevity. And unfortunately we build most of those building blocks in the first 20 years of life. Brad (37m 30s): So if you were born before 1950, she had a great insight in one of our shows and we ate real foods back then before kind of the, the mechanization of food and the processed food that came after the world war. If you had that stability to get really collagen enriched foods in very diet, when you were young, it will benefit you the rest of your life. If you were born after 1950 and grew up on TV dinners and space, food sticks, and all the crap that came into, especially the standard American diet, the emergence of fast food and all those things you’re fighting against that clock. And so here as we get over 30, 40, 50, 60 years old, supplemental collagen peptides can be a huge help research shows that these molecules have a heliotropic effect in the body. Brad (38m 19s): They go to the areas where they’re needed most. So if you have a raggedy, taggety Achilles tendon from frequent injuries, dating back years, and it still feels tight and stiff a lot, and it gives you trouble and you consume supplemental collagen, the collagen . We’ll go to support the connective tissue in that area of the body where it’s been identified to be frayed or inflamed or imperfect. Isn’t that interesting? So college is a big one for me and creatine, probably the most research performance supplement of them, all, all of them validating that not only does it have the performance benefits that you hear about helping you add muscle mass and get stronger, it also has neuro-protective benefits. Brad (39m 0s): So it actually benefits and protects the brain from stress and inflammation. Those are just a couple, and we’ll be talking more about that in the future, especially if you have questions about it, but I think this is a great place to wrap up some really cool questions and get out a lot of good information about how to fight the battle and do it well. So thank you so much. And Hey, spread the word about the show. I love tapping into new listeners, welcoming new people when you’re looking at the, the download rates and seeing a nice steady increase. So I appreciate your help spreading the word. And we’re also seeing people going into the archives and listening to some of the favorite shows, and those are living forever accessible at all times. Brad (39m 48s): And a couple of recent recordings that I did with Jake Steiner about some of my favorite highlights. And then we’re also publishing some more highlight clips from past show. So hopefully that’ll inspire you to go back and look at stuff that you missed. That’s still super relevant and interesting, even if it was recorded a year ago or two years ago. So that’s that. Have a nice day? Yay, bump, bump, bump, bump. Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support. Please email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows, subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. Brad (40m 41s): You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. It helps raise the profile of the be read podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.rad.

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In this episode, I connect with writer and podcaster, Brock Armstrong, to talk about the functional approach to fitness and movement he has formulated by drawing on his extensive experience in the fitness, movement, and wellness industry.

By utilizing his understanding of functional movement, endurance training, muscle building, and the ever-important balance between performance and health, Brock helps people all over the world achieve their goals and improve their quality of life. 

Brock always brings an exceedingly sensible and balanced perspective to the table, and this episode is no different (click here to listen to his previous interview on the B.Rad podcast). He breaks down how he has been using his background in Cognitive Behavioral Theory to help his clients, and reveals his recent discovery: he can actually make a much bigger difference for his clients if he doesn’t just give them a plan to follow, but instead helps them discover a plan of their own. Brock says, “Truth be told, most people know what they need to do – they just need some help figuring out how to actually do it!” 

TIMESTAMPS:

Brock Armstrong is full of information on all areas of fitness, health, and helping people lose weight as well as coaching and providing mental health therapy. [01:35]

Brock’s new podcast is called Upgraded Fitness.  He talks about people’s relationship with food and movement.  [05:06]

Brock has learned a lot since he was a ballet dancer about the harm he was doing to his body. [07:51]

After having an infection in his heart, Brock’s awareness of his anxiety over the illness, taught him some good lessons. [09:51]

How does our mindset come into play with our concerns about diet and exercise? What beliefs do I have that are not serving me well? [16:08]

Do you tend to take pot shots and see yourself as right and the others are wrong? Do you have all or nothing thinking? [25:21]

Sometimes the question you have about your behavior is not the real question. [34:37]

Ask why. Ask five whys. [39:11]

When you have a goal, try things that you like to do.  Don’t force yourself to do something you don’t enjoy.  It won’t sustain. [48:30]

When you have a cold or an injury, you need to stop what you are doing. [52:49]

We all have beliefs whether we realize it or not. Ask yourself why? [01:00:36]

LINKS:

QUOTES:

  • “We are afraid to do things wrong – to the point where we don’t do anything.”
  • “Our society has shaped us and turned us into people that think of exercise as punishment, food as reward, and everything in between is just a balance of those two things.”

LISTEN: 

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (1m 35s): Brock Armstrong is back for another appearance on the B.rad podcast. I love talking to this guy. He is so simple and sensible and gentle and kind and has such a wonderful approach to fitness, health, helping people lose weight. He’s all over the place. He’s had a wonderful career in the progressive fitness ancestral health scene because of his audio engineering expertise. He was actually the man behind many popular podcasts. You can imagine mastering these shows over many, many years time from some of the leading podcasts, like The Primal Blueprint podcast, like Katy Bowman’s move your DNA work. Dave Asprey’s Bulletproof podcast, Ben Greenfield fitness show. Brad (2m 18s): He used to co-host the Q and A with Ben and the Mark Divine Navy seal podcast. So he’s had a breadth of experience from some of the leaders and has built up such an incredible level of expertise and awareness himself, which he puts to work with his coaching clients. And he has a wonderful program that we talked about in the last show called Weigh Less. And you can learn all about that at his new and improved website, Brock Armstrong.com because he’s busting out on his own after co-hosting shows and doing a show for Scientific American. Now it’s all about Brock and his continued progress toward being the most effective coach he can be. Brad (3m 2s): And one thing that’s really interesting that we spent a lot of time on this show covering is his recent certification in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. CBT it’s a popular form of therapy. He realized when he was doing all this work with weight loss enthusiasts and dispensing the proper diet and exercise information on his great videos and articles and podcasts content, that there was another element here that was kind of missing. As Brock says, it turns out that if I make a bigger difference, if I don’t just give people a plan, but instead help them discover a plan of their own because most people know what they need to do. Brad (3m 43s): They just need one someone figuring out how to actually do it. So getting through those blocks, those negative behavior patterns, those program, beliefs and behaviors that kind of sabotage your success when you’re armed with the knowledge and the inspiration and motivation out of the gate. So I think you’re gonna really love this. A bit of a departure from the nuts and bolts of a, should we eat this food? Should we eat that food? What about this workout? Which is mainly Brock’s life’s work, but now he has a beautiful overlay on this. A great show with Brock Armstrong. Here we go. Brock Armstrong. I got ya. We are rocking and rolling. Brock (4m 23s): I am here once again. Good to be here. Brad (4m 26s): Listeners. We got to admit we’re warmed up because we just recorded a session for this amazing new podcast called Upgraded Fitness with Brock Armstrong. So I would love to kind of flow into what you’re doing with the new podcast, how the idea came about, and especially the topics that you’ve been covering with get fit guy and this kind of world that you’re existing in, where you’re trying to seemingly broaden the discussion and kind of embrace a bigger population than the fitness freak who listens to Brock and Brad talk about marathon training and ultra marathon finish lines. You know, so let’s, let’s hear about upgraded fitness. Brock (5m 6s): Yeah. I mean, I’ve, I’ve been biting my tongue like crazy, cause I know you are also probably glued to your laptop or your tablet or whatever, watching the, the Olympics right now. I, and yesterday was the, the race walkers 50 K race walker race just under four hours. They, I could, I could just talk about that all day, but we know now that this is not what I mean. There is a niche audience. There’s definitely a bunch of people out there who are nerds like us that would really get excited about talking about that kind of stuff. But I found more myself to serve my community and to really make a difference in, in people’s fitness world and people’s what I’d like to say, their relationship with food and movement is much more accessible, much more low level than, than all of that stuff. Brock (6m 3s): And I can take everything that I’ve learned from being a ballet dancer, from being an endurance athlete, from lifting heavy, from doing crazy diets, to jumping from Keto, from high carb to Keto and to back to high-carb, to medium to all those different things. Take all of that information. And I can share, I can share all kinds of training programs. I can give everybody all of my advice on that, but at a certain point without actually healing that relationship with food and movement, it’s never sustainable and it never quite lands. It’s just an endless series of going from one training program to another. One diet program, to another. Brock (6m 43s): One meal plan to another, and nothing ever really becomes an individualized. It never becomes internalized or sustainable. So with the upgraded fitness podcast and with my coaching these days, and I actually like a lot of people during COVID during lockdown, especially those early days when we really had no idea, like, can I actually leave the house? Is it okay to actually leave the house? Okay, it is, wait, are you sure? I, I jumped online and got myself a cognitive behavior therapy practitioner’s certification. Now CBT or cognitive behavior therapy is something that played a huge role in my mental health life, like 20, some years ago. Brock (7m 27s): And I’ve been using what I learned as being a recipient of that therapy. And now I’m a practitioner and I’ve sort of, it feels like I have brought all of this information together into one neat little package. And I’m really, I’m just excited to share it with people. Brad (7m 44s): Gee, what does my mindset have to do with my diet and my exercise? That seems ridiculous. Brock (7m 49s): Yeah, it does seem ridiculous, doesn’t it? Brad (7m 52s): So listeners, that was not a hypothetical when Brock was rolling through the, the checkpoints of being a ballet dancer. Then it turns out then a big bodybuilder. So maybe kind of hit some highlights along that road, as far as what were the major learning experiences and epiphanies that occurred in your own quest for fitness? And then I want to jump right back into the CBT and how the, the mindset and that type of training does, in fact, frame our, our experience as healthy eating and fitness pursuits? Brock (8m 28s): Right. I, the it’s a to make a long story short because I don’t want to bore everybody with my, my life story, but right out of high school I was a professional ballet dancer. And this is in the 1980s, like the tail end of the 1980s, but still back then, and we were doing our absolute best as a bunch of late teens, early twenties, to be as strong, as durable, as capable, as flexible, as lean as possible without having any of the knowledge that I now have in terms of how our bodies actually work. So there was an awful lot of really dumb things that went on like smoking instead of eating. Brock (9m 9s): Drinking copious amounts of coffee, instead of eating. In fact that I didn’t do this, but there were people in the ballet school with me. So, and especially the female dancers who were so desperate to be lean, they were doing things like shredding newspaper and putting ketchup on it and eating that because it would fill up their stomach. They wouldn’t feel hungry, but wouldn’t necessarily be having any useful calories. So a lot of really dumb things happened back then. And of course I ended up injured as most dancers do and, and probably could have gone back to a dance career at some point once the injury had healed, but got distracted by, by various other other things. Brock (9m 52s): And eventually became a desk worker, got the government job with the golden handcuffs and, and everything, and started putting on some weights, drinking a little more alcohol than I probably should have been an eating out a little more was the, the biggest I ever was and hopefully ever will be in my, in my adult life and through no, even though I’m painting a very grim picture of my lifestyle, unrelated to my lifestyle, I got an infection in my pericardium, in my heart and landed in the hospital near death experience, yada yada dead on the table, woke up, paddles on my chest, all that wonderful. Brad (10m 37s): I didn’t know that. I didn’t know that was song lyrics it, if it is, or you’re making it up. That’s pretty cute. Brock (10m 43s): I’m a song and dance, man. What can I say? Brad (10m 45s): Got the paddles on my chest pedals on my chest, flying through the air here comes the graph and I’m okay. I have to change my golden handcuff life or Brock. Brock (10m 57s): Exactly. Yeah. So luckily I was right as I did come out, the other side of it with a clean bill of health, it was a year and a half of kind of misery in an in and out of like, just not being able to exert myself in any way. Cause my heart just couldn’t couldn’t handle it. So I just felt exhausted all the time. Brad (11m 16s): Was that part of your recovery? Brock (11m 18s): Yeah, I had recurrent pericarditis, which meant that it just like you would sort of clear up a little bit and then it was, it would come back and there wasn’t really anything they could do about it. Just sort of let it run its course, unfortunately in and keep an eye on, on things. But I did eventually get the clean bill of health from my, from my cardiologist. And in the meantime I developed quite a generalized anxiety disorder around my health, which is quite common for people who have like heart attacks, strokes, cancer, any of those, life-threatening kind of, you end up with a generalized anxiety disorder usually around your health. Brock (11m 59s): So I kept coming back to my cardiologist saying like, look, I’m not okay. I still have these crazy flutters and he’d run all the tests and say, no man, you’re you’re okay. Trust me. You’re you’re okay. And then he said probably flippantly. He probably doesn’t remember this. He said, you know what you need to do to prove to yourself that you’re okay is run a marathon or something. Oh. And I went in the back of my poor anxiety brain when marathon equals feeling better. Okay. I’m signing. So like later that day I called my cousin who had done some marathons and said, Hey, could you train me for a marathon? And I was like, sure, I can like give you the book that I used. Brock (12m 38s): And it was like the, the quintessential marathon training book. And I signed up for the marathon later that day and started training and decided that I was going to do everything in my possible in the world to, to try to prevent this kind of thing from ever happening again, which was misguided. And definitely, definitely based in, in the anxiety response because it wasn’t anything within my control that infection could have gone to my bladder. It could have gone to my nose, my ears, it could have gone anywhere, but it went to my heart just based on luck being unlucky. Brad (13m 13s): So are you saying the symptoms were real and you weren’t just an anxiety freak or, or were you feeling at that point weren’t real anymore? They were. That was just mighty. Yeah. The, the anxiety, the way my therapist that I eventually worked with described it to me as when you get into this sort of state, especially if you’re recovering from, from a life-threatening thing like that, we are, our security guards are our little, our, our policemen under our head are on guard for a very specific symptom. And they’re on high alert all the time. So normal little things like a little heart flutter that we all have all the time and, and goes completely unnoticed, becomes the focus of the entire day of I had heart flutter. Brad (14m 1s): So that was really what I was, what I was feeling was it wasn’t that I didn’t have things going on in my body. Brock (14m 9s): I was just on high alert and re overreacting to them. And I carried that overreaction to do things like have a tattoo removed because I thought that was going to make me sick and running a marathon instead of just going completely vegan, really like I was eating huge pots of beans soup and stuff to make sure I didn’t have any cholesterol in my, in my body. And all of those now looking back, I know, were misguided things to do. But in the moment it seemed like it was the prudent thing to do to protect my health. But after that marathon, I was, I was pretty hooked on the sport in, in a lot of ways and moved into triathlon and, and, and then started doing some of the shorter races and just really enjoyed the challenge that, that it laid down. Brock (15m 1s): And at a certain point, I met people like you and Mark Sisson and Phil Maffetone and stuff, and started to realize that this isn’t necessarily the healthiest way to live, but there are some healthier ways to do it. And yeah, then I got really excited about putting on as much muscle as I possibly could being a lean endurance athlete. And it’ll be in ballet dancer, put on some muscle and enjoyed that for a while. And now I feel like I, I turned 50 three days ago and I I’m sort of taking all the information I’ve learned from people like you from Mark, from Dave Asprey, from Ben Greenfield, from all the, all the people that I’ve had, the, the luck, I guess, to, to have worked with and for, and, and learn from, and, and really just putting it all into one neat little package of being someone in their fifties are actually what I’m calling it as my second, the second half of my first century on this planet, taking all of that information and just making myself as capable and durable and Bulletproof as I can for the, for the next half of this first century. Brad (16m 9s): And listeners, this is the epicenter of health and fitness information because Brock was a long time podcast, audio producer, and you were mixing with so many great people. Katy Bowman goes on that list too. Yeah, Divine fields. Love it. And so a lot of information’s flown in and out of this brain and this, this headquarters in Vancouver, British Columbia. So, oh gosh, we could, we could talk about so many things, but it is really fascinating how, how the, the mindset and your particular training plays such an important role. So when you’re talking about, you know, pulling all your life experience together, and let’s talk about this new layer of the cognitive behavior therapy, and maybe a quick overview of what that is, if people aren’t familiar with it, and then how are we going to, how are we going to shoot that into our eating and fitness goals? Brock (17m 1s): Yeah. Yeah. Well, cognitive behavior theory or cognitive behavior therapy is really learning to identify our own, the role that we play in our own emotions and our own reactions to things, learning to see those moments when maybe somebody’s pushed your buttons or you’re reacting in a less than optimal way to something. And instead of wishing that the world would change looking at yourself to figure out what can I do to change or what this is, this is one of the things I actually I’m embarrassed to say. I just heard about this. And I think it was because of Oprah, but asking the question instead of what’s wrong with me, what happened to me? Brock (17m 48s): Because a lot of the things that I’m not talking about, like severe trauma or something like that, of course, that would play a role, but it can be everything from like, what shows did I grow up watching? What did, what did my parents instill in me? What did I, what did I hear from my teachers at school when I was a kid? What did the church group say to me at some point that has influenced the way that I react to certain situations? So then I can look at those beliefs and see if they’re still serving me. So really you can probably start to see how you can apply that to things like exercise and diet and because our society has shaped us and has turned us into people that think that exercise is punishment. Brock (18m 33s): Food is reward. And that everything in between is just a balance of those two things. I eat too much. So I have to punish myself by exercising. I eat, I exercise a lot. I get to reward myself by, by eating a whole bunch. And it’s of course more complicated than that, but those are sort of the basic beliefs that we’ve been indoctrinated into from such an early age. Brad (18m 56s): Oh, very well-described. And we hear so much these days about this, this concept of a subconscious programming, which largely happens in childhood. Maybe my favorite characterization is from Dr. Bruce Lipton and his book, Biology of Belief and how we’re operating 93 to 98% of the time from subconscious programming that was programming from ages zero to seven in childhood. And so everything, most, everything we’re doing is reactive or repeating the same tapes, the same thoughts. What do we repeat? Like 80% of yesterday’s thoughts. And then 80% of these repeat thoughts are negative or negative 90% are negative, right? So I guess you’re, you’ve described CBT as a way of kind of dealing with this reality that we do have a lot of programming and in the case of wanting to be a better person, the limiting beliefs that we want to address and uncover, and I think they talk about asking yourself, is this real? Brad (19m 55s): Am I really a lazy, no good person? Or is it just a belief that’s been thrown in and can I challenge it and reframe it? Brock (20m 5s): Yeah. The, the cognitive distortions that we, we tell ourselves that things are the black and white thinking or the, the crystal ball kind of thinking that we get involved in late in the middle of the night, thinking about what’s going to happen tomorrow, next week a month from now. And it always is catastrophizing is another cognitive distortion where everything is always going to head in the most negative way possible. Yeah. Those are, that’s a lot of the, the challenging of your beliefs. Like, first of all, realizing that you do have beliefs and figuring out what those ones, what those are, because a lot of the time we’re just reacting. And we think that the world is to blame because of it. Brad (20m 48s): Yeah. What if it’s other people’s fault, not my beliefs. What are you talking about? Brock (20m 54s): And changing your believe me, like whether you believe it or not right now changing your own beliefs is a lot easier than changing somebody else. You can probably imagine, especially, but, but, okay, fine. The other side of this pandemic at this point, trying to change anyone’s beliefs around something as simple as like what we’ve, well, I guess it’s not simple, but some of the more simple things that we’ve been asked to do during the pandemic try, but you can’t change other people’s opinions, but you can look at your own belief system. And, and I always think that the easiest way to ask yourself, or the easiest way to, to then take steps to say, is this belief still serving me because a lot of the beliefs sure. Brock (21m 41s): They probably did serve you as a, as a child, or they served you to please your parents or stay in line with your teachers at school or something like that. But at this point, are they still serving you? And most of the time say, well, no, because it actually is. All it’s doing is making me upset or making me resentful or making me choose the food that I’m trying to avoid or making me avoid exercises that I should be choosing to do. And things like that. So asking yourself in those moments or learning to identify those moments and say, okay, so my belief in this is leading me to react this way. How is that serving me? Is that, is that serving me anymore? Brock (22m 22s): And then if the answer is no, which it quite often is what can I put in, in place? What do I really believe about this situation? Brad (22m 32s): That makes sense. I’m also thinking that we have a ton of beliefs that we would maybe analyze and say, these are serving me. I believe of myself to be a healthy fit person who prioritizes healthy eating and good sleep. Okay. So we’re not talking about that. We’re talking about areas where we’re struggling and feel like we’re hitting our head against the wall. And so now when we transition to that and you can keep all your beliefs, people, you can vote for whoever you want and, and think that you should wear a mask or not wear a mask or a vaccination is silly or it’s, it’s mandatory. And everyone else’s disgrace, all that stuff is fine. Brad (23m 14s): And then when we kind of have the chance to sit down and examine those, what would you call them? Self limiting or destructive beliefs. That’s when we can get some real work done. And I’m wondering sometimes it’s difficult to acknowledge that there’s a belief there or behavior pattern, because we’re so used to being reactive and blaming others. Brock (23m 37s): Right, right. Then that’s a lot of the time. And this is when I’m, when I’m coaching people. I do group coaching through a program called Weigh Less. And we, we have hundreds of people in the program at, at a certain time. And once a month we get on, on a zoom call and we all just sort of talk through the things that we’re working on. And every day we go into our forum and, and pose questions to each other and stuff and often the, the language that we use or the phrases that we use to describe ourselves, that can be real evidence into the way that we are deceiving ourselves. Brock (24m 18s): There’s a lot of limiting, like you were saying, the, the limiting beliefs that we put forward in, in, because we’re talking about weight loss in, in Weigh Less tend to be things that people say, things like, well, like I’m, I’m completely powerless when chocolate does around, or I’m completely addicted to sugar, or I’m someone who can’t resist this, or I always get injured when I do this. Those types of phrases. If you can learn to identify those phrases in yourself or have somebody like me identify them for you, what did you just say? Is that really true? Like, do you really think that if chocolate is present, you can’t actually control yourself. Brock (25m 0s): Like you’re not a rational human being that can actually do something else with that chocolate other than eat it? and I guess some people, maybe they can’t. But I’m guessing the majority of people can do that. And by repeating that story to yourself over and over again, that you are somebody who can’t control himself around chocolate, you know what that does? Brad (25m 18s): Why are sex and baby? Brock (25m 20s): Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Brad (25m 22s): I’m also looking at our, you know, our, our tendency to take pot shots or commiserate and things like, you know, negative comments about wealth or, you know, income disparity in society. And it’s kind of maybe a way that we’re holding ourselves back if we avoid or an ostentatious display of wealth. And there goes on Lamborghini down the street and what a joke that costs more than a house. And there’s starving people in Africa and, and things like that that are kind of throwaway comments that are widely validated, or for example, like, oh, social media. Brad (26m 6s): It’s so ridiculous how everyone’s parading around in their bikinis on Instagram and using Photoshop and, and getting, getting tanned and looking perfect. And isn’t that a superficial and ridiculous, and it’s kind of a way to keep yourself locked in a undesirable body composition because, boy, if you were to become an Instagram model and, and have your six-pack showing, you’d be so superficial and, and vacuous. Brock (26m 33s): Yeah. It’s, there’s a lot of choosing sides that goes on. And the things that you’re describing right now, like seeing, having an emotional reaction to somebody driving a car down the street, or having an emotional feeling like it’s a personal attack that somebody is wearing a bikini on Instagram is a real symptom that we have set ourselves up in society to be either right or wrong or on the right side or on the wrong side. And again, like, I know we’ve talked about the pandemic more than I’m comfortable with because I’m no expert in, in this, but it’s, we’ve seen it played out in that as well that you’re either on the side of the masters or you’re wrong. Brock (27m 19s): And there’s, it’s, we tend to set ourselves up in these right or wrong situations or taking sides in these situations. And, and when we have the mask is a little more, a little more loaded, but as something as simple as a flashy truck driving down the street, actually eliciting an emotional reaction from yourself. And you immediately write that person off as a jerk or a superficial. I can’t remember the words you used, but like as a superficial individual, that is, we’re definitely telling ourselves some stories there and also engaging in a, in, in a type of thought that is absolutely not productive in any, any sort of way. Brock (27m 59s): But again, that was some sort of belief that somebody exposed us to somewhere. We got told, we got the belief from somewhere that those kinds of people were this way and therefore we’re carrying it forward and we’re allowing it to affect our happiness well beyond its useful time, if it ever was a useful thought to have. So, yeah, I mean, we’re straying quite far from the, from the idea of, of fitness and wellness and stuff now, but it all really does circle together. It really is all interconnected with the way that we talk about other people, the way that we talk about ourselves, it’s all rooted in those, that belief system that tends to just operate very surreptitiously under the surface that we’re not aware of and it, but it does control the decisions that we’re making for ourselves and in, in my particular world for, for fitness and wellness. Brock (28m 56s): In your world too. Brad (28m 58s): So maybe we could talk about some of the common patterns such as someone heading out the gate with great enthusiasm and energy with a fitness program in mind, and then they fail to adhere at some point. And what do you see as some of those ways that we get in our own way? And we, we can’t keep it, keep it going and we kind of fall off. Brock (29m 26s): Well, I think the, one of the biggest things that I find that I work against or work for work with in the fitness and wellness area is the all or nothing thinking like we definitely to have this, this feeling that we either need to be hitting the CrossFit gym. I feel bad. We’ve been picking on CrossFit and in the last few episodes of my show anyway, but either we’re going to, let’s say yoga six days a week or five days a week, or we’re doing our marathon training program or, or we’re doing another thing that is very prescribed, usually has some branding around, it usually costs some money involved, some sort of, some sort of location or some sort of gear or something. Brock (30m 18s): We’re either doing that or we’re doing nothing. And if we happen to fall off of that, one thing that we’re doing, then we go back to the nothing. There, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of middle ground. Like we either we’re eating Kateto or we’re eating all the carbs or we’re like, it’s just a very black and white all or nothing kind of thinking that we have where I love that people like BJ Fogg and oh, The Atomic Habits, James clear. Yes. I love that these books are getting a lot more prominent these days where smaller incremental changes are, are actually becoming a little more in fashion to do rather than the all or nothing thinking that we’ve been, we’ve been seeing for so long now, but it really is still very much in vogue. Brad (31m 11s): It’s in Vogue. Black and white are still fashionable. So what is, what is, how is that serving us? Why is it so common? It seems silly. I mean, black and white thinking is ridiculous, but it’s so common. So what’s, what’s going on there, especially as it relates to healthy eating and fitness? Brock (31m 33s): I think it’s a lot of it comes from the fact that we are drawn to extremes. Like as, as humans, we, we want to be doing everything or, or we’re lost. Like we want to, we want to be speeding down the streets or, or staying home. And I honestly, I don’t know where this desire comes from, that we need to, that extremes sell like the, the more extreme, the, the solution, the easier it is to convince people, to do it. In fact, the Weigh Less program, which is very non extreme, we approached a book publisher to, to have it published as a book. Brock (32m 13s): And after they reviewed all of our literature and stuff, they came back to us and said, this won’t sell it’s too reasonable. Brad (32m 21s): Oh my gosh, what a great banner headline for your website? I love it. Okay. Brock (32m 26s): They didn’t say this won’t work. It’s too reasonable. They said this won’t sell it’s to reasonable. And I think that really does sort of cut to the, the whole idea that we just, it’s gotta be big. It’s gotta be flashy. It’s gotta be a huge change. We really don’t get excited for things that are just reasonable. Hmm. Does that make sense? I don’t know where that default came from. I would love to be that, that level of psychologists to be able to under understand that I, I just know it exists. Brad (33m 1s): I mean, maybe it’s, Brock (33m 3s): it’s not serving us, Brad (33m 6s): you know, it’s, it’s like self-defeating out of the gate, you’re black and white thinking you’re going all or nothing and deep down, you know, it’s not sustainable or it’s beyond your capabilities. And so you’re going to fail. You’re setting yourself up for failure and that’s something that’s been programmed in you that you have fallen short in 17 different ways in your life to date. And now you’re going to be, make darn sure to repeat the same pattern. And we have a lot of scientific support for that. And the psychologists contend that we, you know, if we can lock into these patterns. And so we got to make the goal slightly too difficult and too daunting. So that will once again, fail and confirm our belief systems. Brad (33m 46s): This is a possible, I’m speculating. I mean, Brock (33m 49s): we’d love to prove ourselves, right? Whether it’s in our benefit or not. And it certainly isn’t in the way that you’re framing it, but it’s, yeah, it’s true. Brad (33m 58s): So when you get a, a, a client that you’re observing and engaging in these behavior patterns or speech patterns, what is the gentle and effective way to help recalibrate rather than, you know, calling people out in a large zoom meeting groups saying, oh, there you go with your self limiting beliefs. You loser. Come on. There’s, there’s gotta be a way to kind of help people out of this because it is difficult to extricate yourself. Brock (34m 23s): Yeah. Luckily those people who are on the zoom call are there for a very specific reason. I’m not just calling them out in, in an office meeting or a board meeting or something. We’re all there for a common, a common goal. Brad (34m 35s): A safe environment. Brock (34m 38s): And so many people are there for the same reasons that when I attend, when we do dig into somebody’s somebody’s story, it usually resonates with, with the other people. But the, we often need to ignore the symptom and find what’s actually underlying the, the real problem. The question that people usually come to me with, isn’t the question they want answered. They don’t know this, but they tend to ask a question. That’s like, why can’t I resist sugar? And, and okay, well, so you feel like you can’t resist sugar. Can you give me an example of this as I’m? Brock (35m 20s): Okay. Well, I’m at work and, and going through the morning really well, and I eat my healthy lunch and by two o’clock in the afternoon, I’m so exhausted and hangry that I just have to have chocolate. And I end up eating like three chocolate bars and then get a Coke on the way home. And like, wait a second. What did you say? I’m so exhausted and upset that I have to have the sugar. So the question isn’t why can’t I resist sugar? It’s why are you exhausted and upset in that the afternoon, the, the actual playing out of the habitual behavior, isn’t usually what needs to be solved. What needs to be solved is what is causing the situation that leads to you and acting this habitual behavior that is unwanted. Brock (36m 6s): So in this case, the eating of the chocolate bars and buying a two liter pop on the way home. Sure. We could look at taking some supplements and things to mitigate your desire for sugar, or have that there’s a plant you can put in your mouth that makes sugar tastes bitter. So you don’t do that, but that’s not addressing the problem, which was in their statement. They said that they were exhausted and defeated or exhausted and upset in the afternoon. If we remove that, if we can figure out what’s causing that, then we don’t even have to worry about the sugar. The sugar will take care of itself. Brad (36m 41s): Oh my gosh. Yeah. Brock (36m 42s): So I think the, the question isn’t how to eliminate the all or nothing thinking it’s to get further upstream, I guess, from it, and to take a bigger look and see what is the situation that is causing this behavior to manifest itself. Brad (37m 0s): Oh my gosh. I could see that applying to many different areas. Like I’m easily distracted by YouTube videos of high jumpers when I’m trying to focus and get work done. And well, wait a second, you can put a block in YouTube that says Brad’s not on much things. The statement implies that I have an internet connection readily available to pop over at the click of a button. So I think creating a successful environment kind of flows nicely, you know, into, into the next step of, let’s say the, the imaginary client coaching experience here, we’re trying to improve our diet, improve our exercise and get out of our own way and get our mindset. Brad (37m 41s): Right. But part of that mindset getting right is having, you know, a kettlebell within your visual field when you’re working at home all day. Brock (37m 51s): Well sure. But in that particular situation, I don’t know if this is hypothetical situation or not for, for Brad getting video guides Brad (38m 0s): completely hypothetical. Brock (38m 1s): Yeah. I would say, well, in which situation, like, what are you doing right before you, you start watching those high jumping videos? Like, what are you? What’s the activity you’re engaged. Brad (38m 12s): Brad’s getting processed on his own show. Brock (38m 15s): Oh, there’s No better way to do an exam. Brad (38m 17s): That is correct People. I am, I am game. Here we go. Oh, right. So is it, you know, lack of taking appropriate breaks at opportune times every 20 minutes to keep my cognitive function sharp and keep my body energy to stay more? Brock (38m 36s): More, more high level more specifically, like, what do you work? What should you be working on when you’re watching the HighJump? Brad (38m 42s): Oh, excellent question. Yeah. You know what? I’m going to say. It’s the, the, the most cognitively challenging tasks are the ones that I like to jump out of with, you know, abandoned. So it’s like writing a book is probably the hardest thing that I do. I can certainly fire off emails. No problem. While the video is running, you know, on the other side, I mean, so that’s my answer is that when it, when the going gets tough, Brad goes to YouTube. Brock (39m 11s): Okay. So why do you want to be doing those cognitively difficult tasks? Like writing a book? Like what is your motivation to write the book? Brad (39m 19s): Well, yeah, so the, the sense of satisfaction and accomplishment and all those wonderful things flow from putting yourself into challenging situations and persevering. And that’s the process of living a rich and meaningful life. And Dr. Lustig talks about this in his book Hacking of the American Mind. You know, we have the serotonin receptors, which are happiness, contentment, fulfillment, all these great things that, that give us a rich and meaningful life. And then we have the dopamine receptors, which are at war with the serotonin receptors. We, we routinely flood the dopamine receptors with all manner of indulgence and instant gratification in modern life. Brad (40m 2s): To the extent that we crowd out our ability to persevere through daunting challenges and struggle over a manuscript. When w w why, why would I do that when I have a chance to see Tim Berry and Barsha team sharing the gold medal, and one of the greatest moments in Olympic history, Brock (40m 20s): But why do you think it’s important to write this book? Brad (40m 24s): I guess, you know, there’s that wonderful part of me that has high values and ideals, and wants to make a difference and make a contribution to the world, instead of just being a dilettante who has, you know, a high competency with watching YouTube videos, Brock (40m 42s): But can you see, like we could keep going like this? I don’t think we’ve hit the, the crux yet, but we call it the five whys. Like, this is just one of the exercises that you can do to, Brad (40m 53s): what am I at four you? Are you going to give me two more? Three and the Brock (40m 58s): we could, but I think we can get into some really personal stuff when we get into, into those. And that is the point of it being five, because usually the first two or three whys are very like, well, like, okay, why do you want to lose weight as a, a really common one? Like, I’m having a lot of trouble, I’m eating snacks and like, oh, well, why do you, why don’t you want to eat snacks? Or because I’m trying to lose weight. Okay. Well, why do you want to lose weight? Well, because I’ll look better. Why, why is looking better important to you? Because it’ll help my self esteem and stuff. Well, why is that important to you? What’s, what’s important about your self-esteem? Well, when I was a kid, I was ridiculed, then it gets very personal. It gets really specific to the point where then we can say, Okay, so in those moments, when you are about to, to look at a high jump video, you know, what’s going on, you know, what the, what the issue is, or what the root of the behavior that you’re about to elicit is. Brock (41m 57s): And often that can be enough to, to shut it down, or we get to the bottom and you don’t know why you don’t know why you’re writing in that book. And so being distracted is super duper easy, because you don’t really care at your root. The book is, is not important enough to you. Watching HighJump videos is much more engaging and exciting, and sure you can get into all the dopamine and serotonin and all of that kind of stuff, but that’s completely irrelevant. If your drive to do something is true and sustainable and stuff, then you won’t experience those kinds of things. Or you can at least defeat them a little bit easier, but often we get to the bottom of things and realize, well, you actually don’t want to lose weight. Brock (42m 42s): You want to heal your relationship with a parent, or you want, you, you want to do something different that has manifested a belief that society is somehow said is going to fill that void instead of actually addressing what the real problem is. So sometimes we write books because we want to feel validated, not because we really think that our, our message is so vastly wonderful and amazing that I need to share it with the world. And so it’s a lot easier to, to get distracted or to engage in, in sort of coping behaviors or, or numbing behaviors instead of actually doing the work. Brad (43m 19s): That’s heavy, man. I love it here, Brock (43m 21s): But it’s really fun when you learn how to do it to yourself, just taking those moments and going, wait a second. That was a really weird thing. Why did I just do that? Okay, what am I working on? What’s going on? And you can ask yourself the five whys sometimes ago. Holy shit. You know what? I don’t care about this at all. Why am I doing this? And sometimes we can’t make that change immediately because it’s how we pay our bills or whatever. Like when people, when I realized that working at the liquor store was not something I wanted to do with my life, which seems obvious now. But when, when I was able to do those moments of wait a second, I’m getting really upset about this job. Do I really care about this job? Brock (44m 2s): And when the answer is, no, the freedom that that comes over you is, is really profound. And then even if you stay, even if you choose to stay in that situation, even if you choose to persevere and write the book, even once you’ve realized that the, maybe the idea that you had in initially was that was something a lot more seemingly meaningful. And it actually, you uncovered that it’s a lot more ego based or something that’s okay. You can still continue to do it, but once you’ve discovered that truth, it just becomes a lot more freeing that you’ve got a much more realistic way of looking at at what you’re doing. And we can just be happier and a little more stress free, I suppose, in some ways, though, it’s not always about changing your life, I guess is the thing it’s, it’s just about changing your belief, Brad (44m 53s): Right. Accepting what have you. So with this example of wanting to get in shape, I think most people genuinely sincerely want to drop their excess body fat, get fitter and actually reach that stated goal, but when it’s not happening and when you know these self-destructive patterns reveal. So now I’m watching YouTube videos instead of going out and working out on my own, my own high jump. And if I go through five whys and all five of them are like, yes, I really want to do this. And I, I don’t understand why, what, why it’s not working well for me, is there, is there another, does Brock have an answer when, when, when we really, and truly, and in, in my example, you know, I really, and truly want to get this book done. Brad (45m 42s): I feel like I have a lot to offer. I have what I think are strong and, you know, intrinsic motivation, nothing superficial or ego-driven, but it feels like my purpose, my calling, it’s very rewarding. I’ve been doing it for a long time, but I’m still stuck at suboptimal then where do I go? Brock (46m 4s): Yeah. Well, that’s what you’ve described, happens an awful lot. And, and sometimes what it ends up coming down to is like, I want to get fit. Why do you want to get fit? Well, I want to extend my life. I want to be healthier. Well, why do you want to do that? Well, because I want to be around for my grandchildren to play with my grandchildren and stuff and say, okay, well, this is all really good stuff. So what are you doing to get fit then. Well,I downloaded this marathon training program, what do you like to run? No. Okay. Let’s start there. If you often we choose a fitness program or a diet or a way of life or a job or a partner or, or something based on beliefs that again, are, are out of date or don’t belong to us or, or a societal. Brock (46m 51s): So we’re actually, it’s our choice that we’re the reason we’re failing at doing the thing that we chose to do isn’t to do with the why is necessarily in this case, it’s to do with you chose the wrong one. So like the marathon, I blow minds all the time. I don’t know if you’ve experienced this as a coach, too. And people say they, I, I don’t know why I can, can’t stick to my marathon training program or something, or I really want to get, get fit. And I go run for three days and then I can’t, I just don’t want to do it anymore. I said, well, do you, do you like running? I said, no, I really don’t and say, okay, well don’t run then. And people are like, what do you mean? I don’t have to run, want to get fit? And like, there are so many other things to do. Brock (47m 33s): Like, let’s look at the vast array of other things that can improve your fitness, that don’t involve running. Making yourself do something that you don’t enjoy is not sustainable, and that’s not going to work for you. So let’s look at like first, make a list of things you, you do enjoy doing that involve moving your body physically, and, and let’s choose some activities that you actually look forward to and enjoy participating in, or at least enjoy the feeling you get when you’re finished, like that satisfaction or the strong feeling that you get after you’ve finished the workout, because then you’re a lot more likely to, to carry that out. So, so yeah, if the, if the why’s don’t play out, if they do play out to be very you’re, you’re acting in line with your greater self or your vision of your greater self, then the problem isn’t isn’t that the problem is that you’re making some wrong choices or you you’ve just made a pick the wrong thing. Brad (48m 31s): Wow. Right. So, so, I mean, it’s kind of like being strong with your word and your intention, choose your goals very carefully, because if you, you know, throw down a stated goal, you better mean it and you better execute. Brock (48m 48s): Well, and also being a lot of this comes down to curiosity and being willing to experiment on yourself. So if you, if you can maintain a level of curiosity, not only can you look at your own beliefs and, and question them and, and find some clarity with that, but being willing to try something and fail, try something. And you’re like, okay, well, no, I didn’t really like that. What, let me, let’s try something else we tend to be. And this is part of that all or nothing thinking, I think is we’re afraid to do things wrong to the point where we don’t do anything and being able to actually accept the fact that, well, you know what I’m going to, I’m going to try Zumba. Brock (49m 31s): Let’s see, like, maybe I’ll love it. Maybe I’ll hate it, but I’m going to give it a try, or I’m going to try training for a triathlon, or I’m going to try gardening for the first time. There’s the sense of curiosity and the playfulness that can come from that can be so much more fulfilling. We can, we can find the things that actually aligned with our greater goals and with our, with our greater vision of ourselves, if we’re just willing to give things a try, instead of being like, okay, I need to get fit. So I got a gym membership, like there’s a lot of societal prescriptions that hardly fit anybody. It’s not only That they don’t fit like these people that I’m coaching. Brock (50m 13s): It doesn’t really fit anybody. There’s a certain amount of the population that can force themselves into that mold and eventually find some pleasure from, from it. But at our mutual friend, Darrel Edwards, the, the Fitness Explorer, he says like, people weren’t meant to exercise. Like there’s, there’s nothing about us that w w like exercising is a very, very modern construct. And so we’re not predisposed to do that. We are predisposed to enjoy moving our bodies and challenge ourselves and, and, and do all the wonderful things that our bodies are capable of. Brock (50m 54s): But exercising in and of itself is a very modern construct. And we’re not genetically defined to, to do that sort of things. So keeping that in mind and just looking for ways to actually let in Katy Bowman or our friend biomechanics, Katy Bowman, is, is the great advocate of that. Just finding ways to do stuff in the garden that uses your body in unique ways. She just released a video about walking down the hill and how to walk downhill. And it blew my mind, like I haven’t been using my hips downhill and what the heck, that’s amazing. And we can find much more pleasure if we have that curiosity and lose the fear of failure. Brock (51m 38s): And I’m sure you get this the same way that I have. And I’ve watched people get this in the past that we get questions as podcasters, like, what is the perfect way to do this? And I’m like, okay, well, what are you doing right now? Well, nothing, what’s the, what’s the perfect way to do this. Like, there is no perfect way to do this. Come on. Just do, yeah. Do something is better than doing nothing. Brad (52m 4s): Yeah. And not obsessing too much about the details. I think I get some wonderful, incredibly thoughtful, intelligent questions, but there are so nuanced that, you know, I could give a flippin’ answer easily and say, just quit eating junk food. And we don’t have to talk about the macronutrient ratios and your, your carbohydrate count keeping under 50 grams or, or whatever. And same with training. Oh my goodness. The ability with all these wearable devices, which, you know, my, my triathlon career predates all this stuff. And so we had a, we had a speedometer told us how far we went and how many miles per hour. And thankfully we had heart rate monitors, and I still don’t see the need for anything beyond monitoring your training heart rate, and then getting a good night’s sleep. Brad (52m 50s): And then assessing Kelly Starrett calls it this metric readiness to train. And it was measured, I think, with science, from the Olympic training center and, you know, the, the very cutting edge of athletic peak performance where they’re testing blood lactate levels and heart rate variability, but readiness to train trumps all of them in terms of accuracy and effectiveness for the athlete to make training decisions. And so if you don’t feel like at one day, or you feel a little heavy in the legs and the first eight minutes of your warm-up before you’re intending to do a sprint workout, that is the, that is the gold standard of saying, yeah. Maybe I better take it easy today. Brock (53m 27s): Yeah. Yeah. I, I don’t know about you, but I’ve shown up gone all the way to the pool changed into my clothes, done one lap or one length and been like, Nope, going home. Brad (53m 38s): Oh my goodness. It takes so long to get to that point. And I remember just starting with, you know, running in high school and we were running ourselves into the ground and it was so challenging and going into college and getting injured frequently, and then into the triathlon scene where the training load is so heavy. And my dad was a big help. He was a physician and I, you know, I’d have a sore throat or getting a little sniffle going, and he’d say two weeks, that’s how long it takes for a cold to run through your body two weeks. I’m like, no, no, I’ll just rest for a couple of days. And then I’ll be fine on the weekend. And I’d go back and look at my training logs. And you would see these patterns of the workout reports for a good two weeks. Brad (54m 18s): Even if you had the slightest little sniffle or sore throat and everything was, you know, everything was thrown upside down. And finally you’d finished coughing and you’d feel a hundred percent around two weeks after a cold. So I finally got smart and realized that when I had the slightest tickle of a sore throat or that slight hot feeling in the head, I would shut down everything and basically go back to sleep. But when I was at my triathlon scene, but, you know, do the best I can to tone things down in modern times. And in fact, in a couple of few days as a healthy athletic person, your immune system can go to work. I like to engage in fasting at these times also, and I’ll come back a day or two later and feel fine. Brad (55m 1s): But if you allow that cold to take hold and run, its course, you are looking at two weeks. The first week is an obvious down period where you shouldn’t be exercising. And then the second week you’re still coughing. You’re still slightly off, but the trade-off of taking one or two days off versus dragging along for two weeks is, you know, it takes a lot to get into a thick head to, to make that good decision. Like you described at the pool, turning around, where are you going Brock you’re supposed to be in our lane. You know, there’s a lot of voices and pressures outside compelling you to keep going and, and, you know, torturing yourself. Brock (55m 38s): Yeah. When are you going to make up that workout? The same thing with injuries too. Like when I was in, basically my career ending injury in the ballet came as a result of being too pigheaded to acknowledge the fact that I had a small injury in my foot. It turned out to be a stress fracture, but it probably wasn’t at the beginning, it was just some old ligaments or something in my foot, but I kept dancing, kept performing, kept going to rehearsal and stuff to the point where I w I know I can see it in my head still, the way I was using my foot was so biomechanically incorrect because I was avoiding the part of my foot that was in quite extreme pain at that point. Brock (56m 18s): So I was using my foot in a very strange way to avoid putting pressure on my metatarsal, which was putting stress on my knee, which was putting stress on my hip and my hip eventually dislocated.. And that was the end. That was, that was basically the end of my career at that point. Sure. I probably could have come back a year or so. I could have maybe in a few months, but at that point, things had sort of accumulated and I didn’t bother coming back, but had I addressed, had I felt that slight sore throat or the, the, the hotness in my head, like you were describing in my, in my foot and said, okay, you know what? I just need a couple of days to, to ice this, give it some rest, elevate it back in those days, it was all about rice, rest, ice compression elevation. Brock (57m 4s): If I, if I had done that for a couple of days, I probably would’ve had a much longer career and, and dance, but instead ignored it pushed through until it became a really full blown injury. And, and yeah, that was the end of that. Brad (57m 20s): I ‘d tease you if I didn’t have a similar story of myself. And so many athletes have the, have the same experience. I mean, a stress fracture is the classic example of the idiot of the year award, because you have so much advanced warning. And I remember when I was, I mean, workout after workout. I remember running on the college team. And of course you don’t want to miss a workout because you want to get picked for the traveling squad. And I was getting this hotspot in my shin, that’s the term for, or they call it a stress reaction. Now when the MBA player has it, but you know, it would be a tight, single spot that would kind of burn and get worse and worse. And on the last workout that I did before my season ending stress fracture became too much. Brad (58m 0s): I lived a quarter mile away from the track and the dorms, and I had to actually limp to the track because the pain was so bad and I got to the track and I told the coach here, my legs feeling, you know, a little rough today, I had to limp to the start of the workout and he said, oh, just go run some strides on the grass. And, you know, warmup gradually not go to the health center for a bone scan immediately. That wasn’t part of the realm. And it probably still is, you know, disgracefully not recognized when athletes are heading over the edge of the cliff, but that was the end for me was, was limping over to do one more workout. And of course, you know that then it was too much. But if we can all kind of, you know, kind of rein it in a little bit, use that intuition a little better boy that opens you up to it ultimately to peak performance. Brad (58m 50s): It’s not the consistency of not missing a workout or, or pushing hard every time out. But you know, being a little more nuanced there, Brock (58m 59s): Right. Yeah. You know, I’ve know you see it all the time at the toeing the line at a, at a marathon or a half marathon or something. You see all these runners out there with the huge knee braces on ankle braces and stuff, Kinesio tape all over their body. Yeah. And I’m not talking about the elites. I’m not talking about the pros. I’m talking about people back in the five-hour corrals and kind of want to do the five why’s on them and say, why are you, why are you racing this? Why are you doing this race? And usually it probably comes down to what you were talking about earlier where it’s like, well, I paid my money. I know I don’t want to miss out on this. My family traveled with me to Chicago to do this race. Brock (59m 40s): I’m I’m doing it. Brad (59m 41s): We’re stuck in patterns. Okay. So the five whys entails addressing an issue and then asking another follow-up and another follow-up to dig as deep as possible. Kind of like you did with me. Brock (59m 53s): Yeah. Love it. Yeah. So that’s a, it’s a nice little tool that you can actually use on yourself. And sometimes it’s actually easier to use on yourself. Cause like I said, you do get pretty real. Sometimes when you get down to the fourth and fifth and maybe six, it can take more than five sometimes to really get to it. But it’s yeah. People should give it a try on yourself, listening out there and see what you are not on earth about yourself, Brad (1h 0m 17s): Pick a topic, any topic, here we go. Brock (1h 0m 20s): Why am I drinking this ice cold coffee sitting on my desk ? Brad (1h 0m 24s): You’ve been podcasting for a while. But before I let you go, I got to put you on the spot, Brock, and ask you for some upgraded nuggets. First. Describe what those are and then lay it on me. Brock (1h 0m 37s): All right. Well, in my podcast, Upgraded Fitness, I’ve started asking everybody at the end of the interviews to give me three up fit nuggets, fit nuggets. Excuse me. Yeah. Cause they’re well, they’re up upgraded fitness. So it’s sort of, it’s already taken on a world of its own. It’s the upfit as the shorthand for the podcast, but, and this can be anything it started out. I was going to ask for people’s workouts, their favorite workouts, and immediately got pushback from my very first guest who is a mindset guy. And he said, well, I’m not going to give you my workouts, but I’m going to give you my mindsets as was like, oh, that’s so much better. So, so basically they’re just things like the, the top three things that I would want people to walk away from this conversation with, I guess. Brock (1h 1m 23s): So I guess the first one would be that you have beliefs. Always all of us have beliefs that are circulating in our, in our heads, whether we’re aware of them or not, that are informing the way that we react to situations, which usually, or which can play themselves out in, in participating in a habitual behavior. That isn’t the one that we want to be exhibiting. So, I mean, I guess like snacking or avoiding your, your exercises, your, your fitness programs and, and things like that. Brock (1h 2m 4s): So don’t feel like anything is broken inside you, your not broken your genes aren’t bad. You’re, you’re not a bad person. You just have some bad programming as the way that I I’m a computer guy. So I, I like to think about it in terms of your, your software’s just in, it needs an update. So by finding out what belief it is that you’re holding, that’s leading down this path. You can, you can often just take care of the problem by changing your, your belief and just be a happier person. And one of the great tools, this is number two, one of the great tools to find that out is to ask yourself why, why you’re doing something, why you believe that this is something that is worthwhile doing. Brock (1h 2m 48s): And usually you can get some pretty real feelings and either understand that, yes, this is a thing that you want to do. And it is something that aligns with your great values. But quite often we realize that this is something that somebody told us we should want to do, rather than something that we told ourselves that we do want to do. And I guess number three would be to not be a stupid idiot. And when you have an injury or an illness to listen to your body. Your body knows best. And, and you can often save yourself an awful lot of pain and suffering by just take a day off. It’s not that bad. Brock (1h 3m 28s): Your body will be, we’ll be happy for it. I’m going to take today off. Cause I’ve been podcasting since eight o’clock this morning. And I like to work out in the morning, but I’m going to go for a walk later instead. And that’ll be, that’ll be good enough because I’ve put enough stress on my central nervous system today. Brad (1h 3m 44s): Big finish. Love it. Brock. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen, Brock Armstrong from the Upgraded Fitness podcast. Where else should we check in with you besides downloading that podcast? Brock (1h 3m 56s): I think the best place to go is Brock Armstrong dot. Oh yeah. Brad (1h 3m 59s): The slick new website. Brock (1h 4m 2s): Oh yeah. It’s it’s slickish thank you. I’m glad you think it’s like, but yeah, it’s a, it’s got all the links to you. Like my Scientific American articles, my old GetFit guy podcast, all the, all the stuff can be found there, all my workout of the week videos as well, where I demonstrate my warm warmup routine. I know Brad has got his warmup routine. We I’ve taken some nuggets out of your, your form of routine and started using them in mind as well. I need to do a new video though. I like that you have your, your old version and your new version of, Brad (1h 4m 30s): I like watching you in the Canadian forest, standing on a random log and showing how you can get a whole workout just in the middle of nowhere for all the naysayers that my gym’s closed during COVID I can’t get in shape. Go look at Brock’s videos. You can happen anytime. Any place . Brock (1h 4m 46s): Bicep curls on the beach. Here you go. In the snow. Actually, that was a, that was a special one. Brad (1h 4m 52s): Thanks for listening to every bet. If thanks, Brock. Brock (1h 5m 2s): Thanks Brad. Brad (1h 5m 3s): That’s a wrap. Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows. Subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. Brad (1h 5m 48s): It helps raise the profile of the B.rad Podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.Rad.

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Reflecting on the 2021 Olympics, one of the things that has stayed with me most is the impact obsessing over results has on people. This kind of intense competitive focus (which seems far more present in American athletes) inevitably leads to problems, both mentally and physically.

Here we had the Jamaicans (coming from a population of nearly three million) still dominating in sprinting, despite America with its 328 million population. Sweeping the women’s 100-meter category – the most accessible and thus arguably most competitive sporting event on the planet!

Then we had the Simon Biles story which frankly (at the risk of being insensitive), I did find a bit disturbing on certain levels. Sure, we have high awareness of the mental strain placed on elite athletes (just check out the Weight of Gold documentary!). But I don’t accept Biles getting the spins in Tokyo when she has practiced five hours a day for 20 years – it just doesn’t make sense. I contend her entire world, including coaches and support system, are creating this over-pressurized, results-obsessed environment that leads to vulnerable athletes frying out mentally at the Olympic Games. Another major factor is likely overtraining.

Speaking of the beloved 800-meter: Sorry Mike Tirico, it was not Clayton Murphy “getting caught in traffic” but rather very likely overtraining that had him off. Ditto with Brazier at the trials. Unfortunately, American athletes love to overtrain, since everything is of such magnified importance. Or, should they actually win gold, it’s been apparent that these athletes can have trouble integrating into real life (just look at Michael Phelps, or all the major sports athletes crashing cars and slapping their girlfriends during their spare time).

In stark contrast, we have Elaine Thompson’s fantastic interview after winning the 100-meter where she says, “I heard them say I’m mental, that I can’t win a medal…but here we are five years later [with a bunch of gold medals]….I’m a tough cookie.” She is for sure a tough cookie, in every important way.

Achieving record-breaking excellence and winning, no matter the cost, was an underlying (and often overt) theme in the media coverage for the games – from NBC’s “medal count” to the excessive dramatizing of Allyson Felix’s baby, to all the families watching back home and the excess obsession with winning gold, gold, gold…Just look at McLaughlin and Muhammad getting asked 10 times if it helps them to push each other faster! This pervasive and damaging perspective is deeply embedded in American culture, and unfortunately, the consequences of obsessing over results are real: as I explain in the episode The Truth About Overtraining and The Stress Response, having to deal with constant overstimulation of your flight or fight response really wears down your body – even your digestive system can seriously take a hit!

This also brings me back to a show I did back in 2019 about how America consistently ranks near the bottom on lists detailing the world’s happiest and healthiest countries. If the Olympics (and Olympians from all around the world) can teach us anything, it’s the importance of not only striking a balance between rest and recovery but most importantly, letting go of your attachment to the outcome (a hard lesson I had to learn as a young athlete too!). 

Consider the good example of Australian sporting culture, where they compete hard, but then go off to enjoy a beer afterward, and don’t get too caught up in the outcome. I think these Jamaican athletes have a similar magic, best revealed by Usain Bolt’s well-balanced approach to his sporting career (there’s not too much overtraining on Usain’s resume!). 

Even if you’re not in pursuit of an elite athletic career, there’s still so much to learn from this year’s Olympics. It might take some getting used to for those of us who grew up in and around this results-obsessed, USA-style glitz and glamour approach to sports, but it sure beats the alternative of risking burnout or a serious injury. Whether you’re an athlete or just someone who is committed to living the healthiest life possible, the Olympics this year made it clear that one of the most effective things anyone can do for their health and athletic performance is to simply adopt a more balanced approach, and shift their focus further away from the result. 

 

What started as a Q&A show went off the rails with the very first question, as we accessed a portal to some of the most important overarching insights about how to properly structure a fitness program for life. 

You’ll learn about the common over-emphasis on cardio, how you can actually max your cardiovascular health and fitness with surprisingly little time, and how any workout delivers a cardiovascular training effect. You’ll learn the real secret to longevity and healthspan, which is to preserve functional muscle mass (and corresponding organ reserve) as you age. This entails performing brief, intense, explosive workouts — both resistance training and sprinting. By pushing your body to the limit, even briefly, you experience massive fitness adaptations and adaptive hormone responses. This references great insights from Dr. Doug McGuff’s Body By Science. You’ll learn how micro-workouts sprinkled into your daily routine can help you meet your fitness goals and your critical health objective to move more throughout the day and avoid prolonged periods of stillness. This is a great show resource when contemplating a fun, sustainable and maximum return on investment for fitness efforts. 

TIMESTAMPS:

Bob is asking about the Maffetone heart rate. Is there a heart rate you can kind of level off at as you get older?  [03:30]

You can get a complete fitness workout in 12 minutes a week if you do it properly. Preserve your muscle mass. [12:16]

The demands you place on your muscles are directly correlated to the demands you place on your organs.  [14:30]   

Move frequently at a slow pace, lift heavy things, and sprint once in a while. You are better off toning things down and getting rest and recovery. [18:04]

There are some do’s and don’ts to talk about. Forget about the 10,000 steps a day.  Shoot for 3,000 or 4,000 which is more sensible. [22:43]

Prolonged sitting causes systemic inflammation, the root cause of most diseases. [27:10]

Micro workouts during the day do a world of good.  You don’t have to have “exercise time” scheduled. [29:28}

Put your body under resistance load. Sprint once in a while. [31:06]

You can’t isolate the cardiovascular system, the heart and lungs from the rest of the body. [33:19]

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B.Rad Podcast

Brad (1m 26s): Checked check, sound, check, sound, check. Greetings listeners. Thank you so much for the incredibly interesting, insightful, thoughtful questions that we will cover in this Q and A show. Hey, I want you to play, I want you to be part of the game. Part of the team. So if you have anything to say, even if it’s feedback or questions for the show podcast@bradventures.com. We read and carefully evaluate every single submission. We appreciate your listening so much. We also appreciate you spreading the word. Brad (2m 8s): If you could so kindly leave a podcast review would be a huge help. I know that there’s a large percentage of the podcast world listening on apple podcasts. So if you can go there now, you can do it from your mobile device with a click of a couple buttons or wherever you listen to podcasts. It’s kind of cool. If you have a less popular player, your review can get more notice. Like I listen to Overcast because I love the, how the app can organize shows and make playlists. And you also have a choice of listening at regular speed or 1.2 speed or 1.5 speed or 1.7, five speed. Anyway, go where you go and leave a friendly review between five and five stars. Brad (2m 50s): We’d really appreciate it. And we also look forward to your questions, feedbacks, comments, everything, and that brings us right, an incredible list of questions. Let’s see how many I can progress through. Hey, sometimes I go off on long tangents, but I’m always thinking in the back of my mind, how would this answer this commentary benefit, the wider audience? So this is not a show for one-on-one coaching support from Brad Kearns but rather a forum to pick up on the themes and topics that are of interest to many people. And indeed we do see some recurring themes areas of confusions requiring further clarification. Brad (3m 31s): So that’s what I like to harp on. And if I talk for five minutes about one person’s questions it’s so that all you all can benefit, or we can get really clear on some of these matters that keep coming up. So Bob teased me up first. Hey, I love the recent Q and A on the podcast. And I thought I had a question popped in while I was doing my morning run. I’m a big fan. I love listening to Maffetone, Mark Sisson, and you. I was turned on to Maffetone by my friend Carsten Solheim, the ultra runner who was also behind the Ping golf club company. Yeah, he’s run the a hundred mile race, a prominent name in that, in that scene. So Bob has been reading Maffetone and Primal Endurance books for a long time and been running at this honoring this maximum aerobic function, heart rate that 180 minus your age calculation, which is so critical, so important for endurance athletes training for daunting goals. Brad (4m 26s): You want to do the vast majority of your training, your endurance exercise at a heart rate of 180 minus your age in beats per minute or below or well below. And I think a lot of people get stuck on that part where they’re frustrated that they’re running so slowly. It takes a lot of trust and faith that you are actually developing the aerobic system when you are training at what seems to be too comfortable of a heart rate to get any significant amount of work or training adaptation. But indeed we have to train the aerobic system, the fat burning system at the proper heart rate. And for most people, it’s an adjustment in mindset because you’re moving pretty slowly when you’re at at that optimal aerobic zone. Brad (5m 13s): And so the major goal here is to go and set your alarm, whether you have an apple watch, a smartwatch, or a wireless heart rate monitor, set that beeper alarm for 180 minus your age and do not exceed it except for rare occasions, when you’re doing a high intensity training session or a race, or what have you. So that’s the MAFF heart rate for you. Bob has been going at it for four to five years, but here’s my question. Bob says, is there a heart rate you can kind of level off at, as you get older, I’m going to be turning 55 next month. And each year the MAFF is getting lower and lower, right? You’re subtracting your age. Brad (5m 53s): So at a certain point, indeed, when you’re a fit healthy, let’s say 60 year old or 65 year old or 70 year old, we see these amazing athletes on the starting line, still doing these long or ultra distance events or competing in the faster events and looking much fitter than their counterparts in those age groups. And so Maffetone himself agrees that at a certain point, you don’t have to get this linear subtraction of your training heart rate because a fit 60 year old, if you go 180 minus 60, that’s 120, but if you’re fit, if you’ve had a succession of good results, lack of setbacks, lack of injuries, illness, breakdown, the things that a lot of endurance athletes struggle with, you can probably level off at a 125 or a 130 heart rate. Brad (6m 45s): And indeed I’m 56 now. And I have been keeping my limit alarm at 130, which correlates to a 50 year old because I feel like I’m adapting just fine to the aerobic workouts that I do. And if you listen to the show, you’ll know that I have tremendously deemphasized steady state cardiovascular exercise in recent years in favor of a more varied workout pattern and doing things that integrate explosiveness, balance, flexibility, mobility, rather than just trudging along and peddling my bicycle or jogging for 30, 40 minutes at a comfortable heart rate. Brad (7m 29s): Straight ahead, look on YouTube for Brad Kearns jogging 2.0, and that’s a video, an actual video of a workout that I do all the time, where I tried to show you guys what happens in, in place or an evolution of my typical morning jog with my dogs. So now I’ll go and look for different challenges that will involve jumping or flexibility drills, breaking it up. And then as a consequence, I am interspersing a lot of rest and recovery where I’m walking or Hey, back to jogging for a little bit, then I’ll do something slightly challenging in one way, shape or form might be even an upper body exercise and then walk it off, walk it off. Brad (8m 16s): So the workout is not too strenuous, just like a slow and steady jog would be, but I integrate so many other fitness capabilities into the session. It’s much more fun. It’s more challenging. It keeps me interested. And so not to denigrate those who love to do the steady state exercise, but really the main reason would be to prepare for a competitive goal of that nature. So if you’ve just signed up for a marathon run or a 50 K trail run or a century bike ride, yes, you’re going to benefit tremendously from putting in the hours the necessary of steady state cardiovascular exercise in pursuit of that goal. Brad (9m 1s): But if you’re going for total all around balanced everyday fitness, as you can listen to in prior shows and YouTube links like Dr. James O’Keefe’s great Ted talk titled Run for Your Life, But not too Far and at a Slow Pace. And also Doug McGuff’s fantastic book Body by Science. It’s a short read, but it has a lot of scientific research backing this idea that you can max out your cardio vascular health and fitness benefits quite easily, much more easily than we might think. So if you just put in a paltry couple hours per week of steady state cardiovascular exercise, you’re good to go. Brad (9m 43s): You got an Aplus in cardiovascular function and heart disease, risk protection prevention provided you’re eating well and not adding other stress factors like smoking and consuming a lot of industrial seed oils, right? But in terms of getting your cardio into a, a respectable level, it doesn’t take hours and hours and hours of 30 miles a week or 40 miles a week, or peddling your bicycle for an hour every day and five hours on the weekend. And in fact, when you exceed this modest standard communicated by very respected science, when you exceed that routinely, you are inviting the risk factors of chronic cardio as detailed in the book, Primal Endurance, and on Mark’s daily apple with the case against cardio, the epic landmark post that was published in 2006 and is referred to by enthusiasts all over the fitness scene, it was kind of Mark Sisson’s calling out the cardio protocol as potentially unhealthy and not terribly beneficial. Brad (10m 50s): And I love how Dr McGuff gets right into this in his book where he says, look, if you’re going at a sub maximal effort, such as jogging down the road dutifully keeping your heart rate at 180 minus your age, so you don’t get overstressed. But if that’s your go-to workout, you’re getting a little bit of fitness benefit. Of course, it’s better than sitting on the couch all day. But if you’re the person that goes and gets on the StairMaster and watches CNN for 45 minutes at the health club and goes home calling that your fitness regimen, you are missing out on the most profound and easily access benefits that come when you push your body really hard for a short duration with these brief explosive high intensity workouts. Brad (11m 34s): We just did a great show with Dr. Craig Marker, where he talks about this concept of high intensity repeat training, where you’re going, you’re putting in an explosive effort, very short in duration, 10 to 20 seconds is the sweet spot, the window where you’re going to get the most benefits with a lot of rest in between these short efforts. And these short efforts could be sprinting on flat ground would probably be the best for bone density and the genetic signaling to drop excess body fat. But of course you can do it on a stationary bicycle. You can do it swinging kettlebells. You can do anything that’s explosive and lasts for around 10 to 20 seconds with a lot of rest in between them. Brad (12m 16s): And so as the subtitle reads, wait, I think it’s in with reach. I got to read the subtitle to you. So the book is called Body by Science. Here’s the subtitle: a researched based program for strength, training, bodybuilding and complete fitness in 12 minutes a week. Yes, you can work out for 12 minutes a week and get fantastically fit and very likely with a greater return on investment than a workout regimen that lasts for six to 10 times to 20 times, as long as that. So in 12 minutes, if you do it properly and throw down some really challenging stuff where you’re breathing, your muscles are burning, they can’t continue anymore. Brad (13m 1s): Whether it’s sets of pull-ups sprints, bicycle, sprints, whatever. If you do a sprinkling smattering of that every week, you’re going to get more benefit than trudging along and racking up the miles. And I think this is especially so as we get into the older age groups where the number one goal for pursuing longevity, as well as functionality or what they call health span. So the goal should never be framed as just living in a long time, because who wants to get wheeled around nursing home in a wheelchair for 12 years with various family members visiting, none of whom names you remember, that’s not what we’re talking about. Brad (13m 43s): We’re talking about health span, where you can be healthy and vital and energetic and go and enjoying outdoor activities and a life of fitness and energy that comes from anybody want to guess? Preserving muscle mass. When you preserve functional muscle mass, that muscle mass that’s being used. So we don’t have to be bodybuilder with the giant muscles walking around. That would be called aesthetic. What do they call that superficial muscle mass looking good in the tight shirt? No that’s way beyond functional muscle mass, right? So functional muscle mass would be just looking fit and toned on the female side. And on the male side, most of us want to see additional muscle mass and less of the spare tire around the middle. Brad (14m 30s): So redistributing some of that weight that’s gone to the wrong places over time. But if you can preserve that muscle mass as you age through the age groups what’s going to happen is this is directly correlated with a, a concept called organ reserve. And organ reserve is the functional capacity of your organs to operate beyond baseline level. So here we are sitting in a chair, you’re driving along, you’re listening to the podcast. You’re watching Netflix in the evening and your organs are all working just fine. Your liver, your kidneys are filtering fluid. Your heart’s beating. Brad (15m 11s): Your lungs are breathing air. But that’s the baseline level, which is not a big challenge for the body. But when you get up and are asked to ascend two flights of stairs, or asked to walk a half a mile on a trail around a park, that’s when your organs, all of your organs have to kick into gear to do a better job answering to the muscles demand, right? So the demand you place on your muscles is directly correlated to the demand you place upon your organs. You’re trying to breathe and send blood to the extremities when you are walking that path around the park. And so therefore these organs are involved, powering the muscles to climb up the mountain, walk around the park, lift the weight. Brad (15m 55s): And so by preserving muscle mass, it’s kind of an indicator. You’re looking like someone who, if you took the, the, the scan inside the body, the organs are looking pretty darn good. In contrast, when you are experiencing diminishing muscle mass through the, through the advanced age groups, this is corresponded, directly corresponded to diminishing organ function. And those people don’t fare too well, especially when a challenge presents itself, such as a surgery where you have to recover from a traumatic event under the surgical knife. Yes, they saved your life. That’s great. Brad (16m 35s): We got your appendix out, but how are you going to heal up when things are a challenge due to, you know, something coming, coming from the outside unexpectedly. And so that’s where we’re looking for this fitness baseline of functional muscle mass. Okay. Let’s also understand that visually you can’t tell the whole story at a glance, right? So some people have a genetic predisposition to carry very little body fat, and some people have a genetic predisposition toward a bigger boned, a bigger size human. And so what we want to realize here is with functional muscle mass, you can probably best test it, not by glancing at someone wearing tight clothes, but going and performing and testing yourself in the gym under resistance load of some kind. Brad (17m 23s): So it could be weights. It could be pulling resistance tubing, right? You can get those things. I love to talk about stretch cords. You can buy them on Amazon has just two handles attached to a flexible tubing and you can pull and do all kinds of upper body workouts. The X3 Bar I’m super, super excited about. I think it’s a wonderful fitness product. That’s very portable and gives you a fantastic body workout in a very, very short time by stretching polling and contorting with the eight template exercises on this very thick resistance tubing. So whatever your choice is, it’s super easy to put your body under resistance load. Brad (18m 4s): We have the primal essential movements. You can go on Mark’s daily apple and download the free PDF, talking you through push-ups pull-ups squats and planks, or look on YouTube for demos of the primal essential movements and all these things that challenge your body with the resistance are super important. And so it’s all about putting your body under high intensity, super challenging, short duration workout, and getting your body under resistance load. That would be The Primal Blueprint, the original laws of The Primal Blueprint remember? The fitness laws were move frequently at a slow pace. Brad (18m 45s): So we definitely want to get a lot of daily movement and a lot of walking and comfortably paced cardiovascular exercise. And then we want to lift heavy things, and then we want to sprint once in a while. So that’s a huge difference from just showing up at the gym or walking or being a, a endurance enthusiast who’s putting in there 30 miles a week running, or a hundred miles a week cycling. And thinking that that is the key to fitness. That is a very small sliver of the overall pie of what it means for functional fitness. Anti-aging preserving muscle mass as you age. Okay. Finishing up with Bob told you I had the potential to go on a ranting tangent. Brad (19m 27s): He was asking for a little, love, a little help with his maximum aerobic function, heart rate. And I said, sure, when you’re 55 60, you can probably depart a little bit from that linear regression of 180 minus your age. But I will end this comment in general, by saying that we have fielded so many emails and requests from people that I interact with directly, that I’ve coached for the years about this 180 minus age heart rate. And by and large, most of it is asking for a little leeway, where can I add five beats because blank, blank, blank. And for the most part, you’ll be much better off taking it, easy toning things down a little bit and getting away from anything that has even the slightest sniff of being chronic and overly stressful when it comes, do endurance training, that means more days off, that means shorter and slower recovery workouts. Brad (20m 25s): And yes, once in a while, you can go push yourself and do a super cool track workout or a hill repeats with your buddies when you’re training for the 10 K or the half marathon. But by and large, most people are out there putting in workouts that are slightly too stressful, too frequently with insufficient rest and recover coverage between these sessions. And again, they’re working this tiny little sliver of fitness. I don’t know why this has taken hold and become the mainstream approach to fitness. Perhaps we’re looking at the great elite athletes of the world, whom many of whom we got to see in the recent Olympics from Tokyo, and you see these beautiful marathon runners like Eluid Kipchoge, running, and doing something great. Brad (21m 10s): And you’re inspired too to go participate and try for a 26 mile challenge. But we can’t look at this example of the elite athletes and try to apply it to our own lives because it’s so extreme. They are much more genetically adapted to doing crazy stuff like racing for 26 miles at a pace per mile of four minutes 32 seconds. That’s what Kipchoge’s world record a sub two hour marathon equates to. It’s unbelievable what they do, and they’re at the very highest level of human performance. So what we want to do is kind of take some basic insights of the best way that the body works, minimize these overly stressful patterns that are so common in the fitness industry, and do it right. Brad (21m 51s): So you feel fun, lively, energetic. You’re not tired. You’re not trying to recover constantly from workouts that, that knock you out and make you sore and give you a little bronchitis that lingers for nine weeks every winter, none of that stuff, we just want to push ourselves a little bit once in a while, make it nice and sharp and aggressive and explosive, and then go home with a little bounce in your step after you went and did some great work in the gym rather than lingering in there too long. Oh, okay. At this rate, we will not be bingeing through a ton of Q and A, but I think that set up was so important that I’ll probably just have to call this breather, show the, the ultimate, you know, choice of what work has to do to promote longevity health span and get away from the chronic patterns that are so common. Brad (22m 43s): So this over arching concept about how to design a fitness program for longevity, for health immediate instant gratification and fitness benefit, as well as looking down the road to how to age gracefully. I think we should wrap it up with some takeaway insights, some do’s and don’ts. I went through the three the Primal Blueprint Laws very quickly, but let’s see how this would look in yeah. General everyday application. So aside from those training for the next Olympics, Hey, only three years now, instead of forests, you better get on it for most of us here, just trying to balance busy life with some fitness objectives and make the most of our time, get the best return on investment for what we’re doing out on the roads in the gym or in our home gyms. Brad (23m 32s): Let’s kind of end with some, some takeaway message here. So we start with the cardio, which was the, the beginning of the show and what heart rates best and all that kind of thing. And we definitely want to achieve that A-plus in cardiovascular fitness and disease prevention. So what we’re talking about here is logging enough hours at a comfortably paced heart rate that we’re going to ask the cardiovascular system to be strong and functional, and that’s surprisingly low, but Hey, a lot of people are not even getting off their butt enough to walk the requisite steps per day. Brad (24m 14s): You’ve heard a lot about that 10,000 steps per day. I feel personally and other experts agree that it’s kind of a ridiculous notion to spout out there as trying to get entrenched in conventional wisdom that we need to walk 10,000 steps a day. That’s five miles, which is an extremely long distance for almost everybody, except for some of these bright, shiny countries like Australia and Switzerland, both seem to have populations that are averaging that routinely. I know a lot of people in urban areas like New York city are probably getting up near 10,000 steps a day, just from the way that life is structured, where you’re using public transportation and walking as the norm due to traffic congestion or whatever other reason. Brad (24m 59s): Maybe people out there in Mennonite, Amish territory are easily walking that much, walking around the farm property. But for most it’s probably too much to ask and it’s a little intimidating, or we feel disconnected from the goal because it’s like 10,000. I know Mia Moore is playing around with their new toy, her apple watch. And we have an extremely lengthy walking day where we do a great hike and walking around town on vacation and looking at the thing. And it says 8,700. It’s like, are you kidding me? How much more do you want us to walk before we can get into the gold star zone? So I’m going to say for a moment, forget about that 10,000 steps a day. Maybe you should shoot for a more reasonable, sensible goal of 3000 or 4,000 and realize that that is an extensive amount of exercise and physical movement with walking at the centerpiece. Brad (25m 49s): Of course, there’s other ways to get your movement objectives in like pedaling a bicycle or a stationary bicycle or a rowing machine. But by and large, if we can just get out there and move around, maybe more than usual, but not this huge obligation or time burden we’re going to be doing quite fine on the cardiovascular exercise objective. If you have this goals, different story, right? Don’t go trying to participate in a marathon. If you’re doing 3,800 to 7,200 steps a day, no you’re going to have to go there. And approximately the challenge of the, the competitive goal on a, on a regular basis in training. Brad (26m 30s): But let’s just say for a moment that most of us probably are doing pretty darn well in cardio. We kind of have to now add this objective of movement, right hand in hand with cardio, but that’s kind of two things. So we have this heart and lungs. How well do they function? Are you getting your couple few hours a week of proper cardio exercise? Okay. Okay. Movement is a different story because the human does not like to remain still for prolonged periods of time. So there’s this extreme health objective. It’s super important of just getting up and moving around throughout the day. Brad (27m 11s): Our genes expect a day featuring near constant movement of some way shape or form. And it doesn’t have to be walking, but walking is the centerpiece of this objective, but it can also be active stretching. It can be my morning, flexibility, mobility, leg, and core strengthening routine that I talk about so much. And you can see on YouTube just doing things in the pattern of daily life, that entail movement. As you heard on my shows with Dr. Herman Pontzer, an interesting phenomenon occurs when we sit still for hours and hours on end. And what this does is it prompts the horrible health condition of systemic inflammation. Brad (27m 54s): And this type of inflammation, this system-wide undesirable inflammation is believed by most medical and health experts to be the root cause of virtually all forms of disease in the body. It starts with inflammation. And so by no fault of your own, you weren’t, deviously throwing down giant liters of root beer and Cheetos, whatever, just sitting can trigger a disease patterns. It’s amazing. That’s why this acronym sitting is the new smoking has a lot of relevance and literally is true. So what that means is whatever you need to do, set an alarm on your device, get up, move around, even for one or two minutes, every 20 minutes, we’ll kind of kick you out of that. Brad (28m 43s): High-risk zone of being a, a sitter, a stillness person, and do the active lifestyle category. So it doesn’t take much, it doesn’t have to get your heart rate up super high and be something incredible or for super long duration. But just the more we can kind of get up putz around, take a break, focus our eyes on distant objects instead of just at the screen all day long. This is also in that first kind of basket of fitness objective to get your cardio as well as your everyday movement. And I’m such a big fan of micro workouts. You can find some programming on that, on this channel entire shows dedicated to this concept. Brad (29m 29s): But what that means is for some of your movement breaks, you can actually do some explosive high energy output of very, very short duration. So it doesn’t really count as a workout. It’s not strenuous. You don’t have to prepare for it, but let’s say that one of your movement breaks involves a set of pull-ups or rushing up one or two flights of stairs. So you’re, you’re punching the gas pedal a little bit, and that is keeping your vehicle in, in top, top form. So it doesn’t always have to be just a regular casual stroll around the block as your movement break, go do something wild and exciting. I think there’s a YouTube video called micro workouts during the day or something like that. Brad (30m 12s): And you can see where I have the hexagon deadlift bar loaded with a moderate amount of weight, and it’s located on the path to the garbage can. So if I’m going to go throw away the garbage from the kitchen, which happens or does that happen once every other day or something? It’s my rule that when I pass by the bar, I do a single set. Hey, sometimes I might do more, but it’s just kind of a fun thing to say, Hey, I have these micro workouts in place in my daily life. And it’s just sprinkled into my, as a habit sprinkled into my routine. Same with climbing the stairs. My rule in the home is that when I have to ascend a flight of stairs during the day, I try to sprint every single time or do a kind of a hopping drill or lunging glute stretch, or glute activation, something differently than just trudging up the stairs mindlessly. Brad (31m 6s): I want to be a little punchy and make it a little workout. So that’s the movement objective hand-in-hand with cardio. And that leaves us with two more. One of them is to put your body under regular resistance load, right? You want to challenge the muscles with a weight, whether that’s body weight, whether that’s pulling resistance tubing, or lifting actual weights, or working with the machines, that’s going to help you preserve muscle mass as you age. And then kind of in the same category of doing brief high intensity, explosive exercise is sprinting. But we like to categorize that the three of, you know, moving frequently lifting heavy things and then sprinting once in a while. Brad (31m 48s): But these precious workouts that don’t have to be done more than once a week in most cases can have an absolutely magnificent, shocking, surprising impact on your fitness, on your fat reduction goals and on your general, everyday health, energy, vitality, brain function, everything. And that involves opening up the throttle and going maximum effort, ideally with high-impact running sprints, because that will help with your bone density, with your, your balance, your prevention from routine accidents and falls that occur so frequently among the elderly. If you become good at sprinting, you will become vastly better, more functional at all lower levels of intensity of any other kind of physical exercise that you do. Brad (32m 37s): So sprinting is where everything else flows downstream from building a little bit of competency in all out sprints. Go to Brad kearns.com. And I think you can find the link to the video primal fitness videos. It’s one of my plane lists on my landing page for YouTube, or you can go to Brad Kearns YouTube page, but you’ll see all these different videos that we’ve now categorized really beautifully, including some running technique instruction, some sprinting instruction, and me talking you through on the video, how to conduct a proper workout, how to do drills that get you to improve your running technique. Brad (33m 19s): But if you can do well at sprinting, everything else is piece of cake. I mean, imagine becoming a good sprinter, how much better you’re going to be at jogging or going somewhere in between jogging and sprinting. So we have the obligation to move frequently throughout the day, build that cardiovascular fitness with some workouts that challenge the cardiovascular system. And, oh, by the way, I didn’t mention this, but guess what’s happening when you’re sprinting or doing a strength training set working through the machines at the gym or whatever you’re doing, pulling the stretch tubes. That’s right. You’re improving your cardiovascular fitness along the way. So Doug McGuff likes to say, “there’s no such thing as cardio.” Brad (34m 3s): Search for that on YouTube. We’ll have it in the show notes also, but that’s the title of this video. It’s only a few minutes long, two and a half minutes, I think. And he’ll give you the gist there. And then there’s also a related video. I forget who the host is, but we’ll find it in the show links. And it also talks and talks for an hour about how there’s no such thing as cardio. And basically the general takeaway is that you can’t just isolate the cardiovascular system, the heart and lungs from the rest of the body. So anytime you pick up so much as pick up a, a dumb bell to do a bicep curl, you are engaging the cardiovascular system and it becomes a cardiovascular workout. Brad (34m 43s): No, it doesn’t have to be steady state where your heart is beating at 137 beats for 45 minutes consecutively while you’re climbing the stairs, watching CNN. But the cardiovascular system perhaps prefers what Dr. Art DeVany calls a stochastic type of pattern where it’s haphazard. The heart’s going maybe even higher than that for the 30 seconds where you’re really working hard and recovering from an explosive effort. And then it’s going down below your typical training rate. So it’s dropping down to 110 or 115. Maybe you have to sit on the bench and answer a text message. I see most people in the gyms doing that during their workout, but Hey, it’s giving them a sufficient rest. Brad (35m 24s): So no harm there. And then you’re stepping back into the fray and moving onto your next machine or whatever. And so you’re getting this awesome cardiovascular workout, even though it’s a spiky graph, it looks like the earthquake Richter scale, rather than that steady state. In many ways this is a better training and health adaptation for the cardiovascular system than the steady state stuff. The heart does not want to go up and peg at steady state cardiovascular is steady state heart rate day after day after day for an hour or two hours or three hours. And there was a lot of commentary about that in our books. And I’m the case against cardio articles. Brad (36m 5s): I referenced a couple very shocking and disturbing lengthy articles and recent years one’s called One Foot in the Grave. One’s called Running on Empty, talking about the serious disease cardiovascular problems that some of the elite ultra athletes have experienced from just running the heart into exhaustion, scarring, chronic inflammation, things like that. So finishing the show up here. Get moving. Do not sit still for longer than 20 minutes ever. The human body is not meant to do so. And you will promote chronic inflammation if you can’t achieve that minor request. Brad (36m 46s): Next, strength training, resistance training. Put your body under some form of resistance load, whether it’s body weight exercises, working with weights, pulling the stretch tubing, doing the machines. And we have generally discussed this as something where you could do a formal workout. A couple of times a week. The workout lasting between 10 and 30 minutes. And I would also say that if you can do enough micro workouts, you will get your strength training objective met simply by hitting the pull-up bar or swinging the kettlebells a couple, few times a day for one minute here, two minutes there. Remember the subtitle of Dr. McGuff book, 12 Minutes a Week to Superior Fitness. And then finally the third category is sprint once in a while. Brad (37m 27s): Let’s say that once a week would be a great objective to conduct a formal sprint workout, where you’re doing the warmup, the proprietary technique drills, and doing a main set where you’re going for a maximum effort for between 10 and 20 seconds, taking lengthy rest intervals and having this nice package of a sprint workout, which is going to be a massive return on investment for the minimal time that you commit to a proper sprint workout. And that, my friends, is the secret to a long, healthy, happy, energetic life. Get your fitness objectives dialed. Thank you so much for listening. Let me know what you think. Try it out. Brad (38m 7s): If you’re deficient on some of those categories. Oh my gosh, you can ease into sprinting of course, by starting on a stationary bicycle or a rowing machine or something, that’s no impact, but you want to envision a constant progress toward one day being able to actually run on flat ground. Some semblance of sprinting, whatever that means for you and whatever level you get to. It doesn’t have to be ready for the next Olympics in Paris, but to, to be able to move your body at maximum effort is going to have tremendous downstream benefits. Okay, there you go. Good luck. Thank you. B.rad. Brad (38m 47s): Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and A shows. Subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. Brad (39m 30s): It helps raise the profile of the B.rad podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.rad

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I welcome powerhouse Melanie Avalon to the show for a memorable conversation about all things relating to eating, weight loss, fasting, macronutrient ratios, and much more.

One of the most interesting revelations from this episode is that a high fat/low carb diet and a high carb/low fat diet are actually both effective for fat loss, and Melanie explains what it is that makes these two opposing approaches work while being so seemingly different. We also talk about the danger of hyper-palatable foods, and you’ll learn what foods to specifically avoid when trying to lose weight. Melanie then offers illuminating commentary on the controversy surrounding excess protein intake: is it dangerous? Is it really going to restrict your lifespan and increase cancer risk? In this episode, you’ll find out all the answers to these questions, plus many more fast-moving insights related to losing excess body fat in a healthy manner and making smarter food choices, as well as some cool biohacking breakthroughs.

Be sure to check out Melanie’s podcasts: she hosts The Intermittent Fasting Podcast with New York Times bestseller Gin Stephens, as well as The Melanie Avalon Biohacking Podcast, where she interviews the world’s top experts on a myriad of health and wellness topics.

TIMESTAMPS:

Melanie will set you straight about all matters of losing body fat in a healthy manner. [01:40]

Melanie discovered intermittent fasting after she tried many unsuccessful diets trying to lose weight. [05:25]

We have to navigate through a lot of bad information. [15:06]

Everything in moderation only works for a very few people. It depends a lot on your personality.  [17:26]

Intuitive eating is great if you can do it. When you are in the store is when you can make or break your goals. [19:32]

Set up your environment to work with your willpower. [22:52]

Melanie does either low or high fat.  There is a question about pairing the two. [24:27]

Whatever calories you eat, whether it’s carbs of fats is completely irrelevant. [28:37]

Intermittent fasting gets rid of many of these issues. [32:41] 

There is some controversy about females being in a fasted state. [35:44]

Is there a body composition where you just can’t fast? [43:57]

Protein is the place to focus. [47:05]

Melanie’s Biohacking podcast covers the things you can do in your daily life to upgrade your body’s performance.  [56:31]

LINKS:

QUOTES:

  • “Gluttony and sloth are not the causes of obesity. They are the symptoms.” (Taubes)
  • “Everything in moderation, including moderation.” (Twain)
  • “Only the disciplined ones in life are free, otherwise you become a slave to your whims and passions.” (Kipchoge)

LISTEN: 

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This free podcast offering is a team effort from Brad, Daniel, Siena, Gail, TJ, Vuk, RedCircle, our awesome guests, and our incredibly cool advertising partners. We are now poised and proud to double dip by both soliciting a donation and having you listen to ads! If you wanna cough up a few bucks to salute the show, we really appreciate it and will use the funds wisely for continued excellence. Go big (whatever that means to you…) and we’ll send you a free jar of Brad’s Macadamia Masterpiece as a thank you! Email to alert us! Choose to donate nowlater, or never. Either way, we thank you for choosing from the first two options…

B.Rad Podcast

Brad (1m 40s): Hey listeners, get ready for the powerhouse. Melanie Avalon. She is the host of the intermittent fasting podcast, along with New York Times bestseller Jen Stevens and the host of the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. Oh my goodness. We get deep into matters of eating, fasting, macronutrient ratios, and you’re going to get some surprising and really memorable insights. One of them that comes to mind is how both low carb high fat and a high fat, low carb approach can both work as long as you choose one or the other and stay away from those addictive hyper palatable foods that typically combine processed sugar and fat. Brad (2m 28s): So Melanie will set us straight with some really deep insights about all matters of losing excess body fat in a healthy manner, picking your macronutrients and your food choices and your eating windows wisely. And of course, we get finished with a little bit of biohacking stuff where she’s talking about some interesting tidbits about making further breakthroughs and especially addressing the controversy about whether excess protein is dangerous and can restrict lifespan, increased risk of cancer. I think you’re going to be illuminated by her commentary that when you realize high fat, low carb or low fat high carb, the wars of the vegan versus the carnivore primal paleo ongoing forever and ever. Brad (3m 14s): But guess what the common theme is, and that’s the emphasis on protein. And you’ll see how that is really effective not only for fat loss, but for health and for satiety. A great show with fast moving insights from Melanie Avalon, go check her out at the intermittent fasting podcast and the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast, Melanie Avalon. I’m so excited to talk to you. We had our enthusiastic email introduction from other parties. I’m like, heck yeah, bring this girl on how interesting, fascinating. You’re all over the place, but mostly known, I suppose, as the expert in intermittent fasting and biohacking. Brad (3m 56s): Listeners, this girl is a powerhouse. She’s got two podcasts, right? The Melanie Avalon Intermittent. No that the Intermittent Fasting podcast and the Melanie Avalon Biohacking podcast. So push pause for a second, go subscribe to both of those shows. And now we get her directly to hear what’s all about. Thank you so much for joining me. Melanie (4m 17s): Well, thank you so much for having me. And it’s very exciting to talk to you because I often I’ve heard you in my head for so long. I wanted to say that you are one of the best audio book narrators and my opinion. And I listened to a lot of audio books like you’re in credit. Brad (4m 30s): Gosh, thank you for that compliment. I’m gonna like excerpt your little, your little clip there and send it to the audio engineers who look at me through the glass going, dude, what the F are you doing? None of these words are on the script. What are you talking about? Cause I figure if you’re going to download an audio book, I know you can read the exact book. I’m not going to be a robot and read it. Anyone can do that. So I have a tendency in the studio to go, you get what I’m saying here? People, it’s kind of like when you’re driving to McDonald’s like, you know, I’m just making something up and then I go, okay, back to the script. Here we go. It’s hard to, it’s hard to stick to the script in life sometimes. Melanie (5m 5s): It cracks me up. And I literally, I want to read along with you to see like what you’re adding and what is actually in the text. Brad (5m 13s): Well, that’s the poor guy’s job he has to make these little marks every time there’s something that’s not in the text and okay. At least someone appreciates me. Thank you, Melanie. Melanie (5m 22s): I do. I do. You’re amazing. So grabbing me. Brad (5m 26s): Yeah, let’s do like a little intro cause it’s all, I don’t know how you got into those health specialties and you also have this Hollywood career going in parallel. So, and then how you escaped from, I forget where it was in the south and you, you jumped right into fast paced, academic and, and personal life. So let’s, let’s get a little background. Melanie (5m 50s): Sure. So long story short-ish yeah, I was raised in the south, moved to LA, but the whole dieting history. That’s how I fell into the whole intermittent fasting. world’s first out and it came out of my diet struggles. So I was always trying lots of different diets to lose weight. Like a lot of people are so calorie counting. I did like the cookie diet. I did HCG jobs that it diet pills. I did all of the things. And then I, when I first tried low carb, that was the first time that something actually was effective. And then on top of that, it, I wasn’t just losing weight. Melanie (6m 31s): I experienced all these other health benefits that I did not anticipate. And then I became very intrigued and I was like, what is happening here? So I got really obsessed with the science of diet. And I first tried intermittent fasting as also an experiment. I was going to try it for one week and this was about a decade ago and I just never stopped because it was like that incredible. I started right from the get go with the one meal a day approach. So I just was like, I’m not going to eat all day and then I’ll eat a huge dinner and that, and here we are now like 10 years later. And then I, the third part of my dietary triad, I guess, was I found the paleo diet after reading, Robb Wolf’s book, The Paleo Solution. Melanie (7m 15s): And that was kind of like the final piece of the puzzle with really finding the diet that works for me. My big thing is that there’s no one right diet for everybody. But I, I originally self-published a book just to provide a resource for people because I would get so many questions all the time. I mean, intermittent fasting is a lot more popular now, but when I was doing it, nobody really knew what it was. So when I brought it up, people were very skeptical. So I was like, I’ll just write a book and then I’ll just give them the book when they have questions. So that was that. And then I started the podcast. I started the intermittent fasting podcast, my cohost, and she also had a book about intermittent fasting. Melanie (7m 59s): So that was a great way to really like get out there and ultimately started the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast because I started going on all the tangent health rabbit holes after having my own health challenges. And I just wanted a platform to, you know, all these books that I’m reading anyways, bring that to more people and interview the authors. And it’s just, it’s really wonderful. I’m really happy with everything. Brad (8m 28s): You made it hrough all that frustration, confusion, struggles, which I I’m, I’m sounding light-hearted, but for real, it’s, it’s a really bad deal. And I’m especially pleased to be talking to a female expert because it, it helps to bring that new perspective in. And it seems like it’s a real challenge with the, you know, the, the societal forces, the cultural forces, the measuring judging voices that we hear in the outside world that can, you can often succumb to, I believe you were heading to Hollywood to pursue the, the, the, the career in front of the camera. Is that right? Melanie (9m 8s): Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Brad (9m 10s): So basically you show up here. I mean, it’s cliche, everyone knows these stories from the country girl heading to the big city, but you’re very much measured and judged by your appearance. And so I’m wondering if you want to share, you know, how did that go hand in hand with what you described as dietary struggles? I’m, I’m thinking you’re, you’re not one of these reformed obese people that lost 150 pounds, but more so trying to optimize and trying to get to that highest level where you get the part and, and someone else doesn’t, you know? Melanie (9m 41s): Yeah. You, you really touched on so many things. Yeah. I, I never, I get that question a lot. Like, were you ever overweight or obese? And I was never, I was never overweight by a conventional standard. Like the standard, the BMI. I was never overweight BMI, but like you said, there is definitely a huge societal pressure and especially in LA a big pressure to be camera ready and to be a certain weight and my diet. Brad (10m 9s): I love that. That’s a great line. Melanie (10m 12s): Oh yeah. Brad (10m 12s): I’m trying to be camera ready these days. No dessert for me. I’m going for camera ready? Yeah. I mean, where am I typically used? Where have I heard that line before? Cam, oh, the camera we need camera ready art for the ad campaign right now. We’re talking now we’re applying it to people who, Melanie (10m 30s): oh, I’ve never heard it applied to art. Brad (10m 31s): This is, Melanie (10m 33s): yeah. Camera ready? So to be camera ready, I honestly, all of those diets really were in pursuit of the camera readiness and they were very restrictive and not fulfilling. And when I like starting low carb and then starting intermittent fasting was just so eye-opening because I finally could eat without restriction and not have all of that, all of that restrictive behavior, but still, I, I mean, made massive improvements and how I perceive my, my body. And I’m actually, I’m very much obsessed with the concept of body image. Melanie (11m 14s): And because I know right now there’s the whole health at it health at any size health at any size. And I’m really intrigued by it because I like, I wish is it health any size? I wish instead that it was like, love yourself at any size instead, because I think a lot of people can get locked. People might be unhealthy with their size and are actually unhealthy, like metabolically unhealthy and, you know, following a diet, that’s not working for them and probably feel really trapped in their bodies. I know, even though I was never crazy overweight, I always, I trapped in my body as far as like sugar cravings and hunger and influence inflammation and brain fog and all of that. Melanie (12m 1s): So I, I don’t like, I don’t know that it’s healthy for society to incur, to put health, attach it, to like this size concept. Like I I’m, I all just, I’m all for people like loving ourselves at any size, but being open to finding the size that both supports your health and your happiness. I know it’s like controversial, but I think some people get like they might be unhappy with the body that they’re at and they feel like they have to accept that because of culture today, when really they might be happier and healthier if they made changes. That’s a little controversial. Brad (12m 41s): Yes. You’ve navigated a very controversial issue. I, I appreciate that perspective a lot. It’s so sensitive that you almost can’t open your mouth without getting slapped from one direction or another, unless you’re Joe Rogan and you’re all powerful. And I’ve heard him say on his show on this very topic. Like if those people just get off their ass and quit being so lazy and all those kinds of things, and then we have to reflect on Gary Taubes, great book, Why We Get Fat and his takeaway quote that gluttony and sloth are not the causes of obesity. They are the symptoms. So people with metabolic dysfunction, however you got there, whether you have some genetic predispositions or adverse dietary practices, you are going to be someone who is too tired to exercise and too hungry to stick to the diet that eliminates the, you know, the, the foods that we don’t want to eat. Brad (13m 32s): And so I think we have to have more compassion for people who are suffering from metabolic dysfunction. And it’s not as simple as getting your ass off the couch and eating less food, even though it is, we’re going to have to back into that with healthy lifestyle practices. But boy, yeah, I think it’s kind of a reactionary position to say healthy at any size when, if you’re not healthy, you’re not healthy. And you better wake up and take a look at this rather than cruise into, you know, seat number 14 A because someone’s reserving it for you. Cause we don’t want to be politically incorrect or, you know, judgmental or whatever. Melanie (14m 14s): Yeah, exactly. Actually, I just had Gary on my show as well. He’s, he’s amazing. I loved his new book about the keto keto diet, but yeah, like a metaphor I just thought of, or similarly, I guess it depends how I open it, how I phrase it, don’t ask me. It’s like, so it’s a simile. It’s like, if, if, if like, if there was a prison of like, this prison was being unhealthy, it’s like, if you were stuck in that prison prison, because you’re in an unhealthy state, but you’re being told no you’re healthy at any size. Like there is no prison that would be very confusing and very frustrating because you might feel like there’s nothing to do. Melanie (14m 59s): Like I think it takes away some of the, like the action that you can take to make, you know, to make changes. Brad (15m 6s): Yeah. I mean, same with when people say everything in moderation, I like to fire back a wiseass comment, this is a quote from Mark Twain, everything in moderation, including moderation. And when it comes to our eating choices, because we’re bombarded with such garbage and such corporate propaganda and, you know, misleading advertising and all those things. We can’t have a moderate approach to healthy eating. Otherwise we’re going to succumb and we’re going to go into disease patterns that have touched and ruined so many people’s lives and touched all of our lives. And so it’s like, no, I have an extreme approach to my food choices because I have to navigate through all this poisonous toxic shit that a lot of people are saying it’s okay to eat or encouraging us to eat. Brad (15m 52s): So yeah, everything in moderation is going to get squashed. And I believe that, you know, there’s a way to approach this issue in a sensitive way where maybe people can benefit from getting off their ass a little more and listening to Joe Rogan with, you know, a little bit of grain of salt. But boy, you know, we, we made good points here that, you know, don’t, don’t give up if, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re thinking along those terms. Melanie (16m 21s): Yeah, you are. You’re speaking to my heart fam and I’m, cause I do think there are different personality types and I personally am an extremist, so I don’t do so well with moderation. Anyways. I know some people do better with moderation, but that aside like our processed food, that we are processed foods that we have today, seeing how seeing is how they are basically genetically engineered to trick our brain into wanting more. I think it’s really hard to, if people feel like they have to be able to engage with them in a, in a, a moderationist approach, if we’re gonna, if we’re gonna continue walking on tiptoes, like with the intuitive eating movement, I think I’m all for intuitive eating. Melanie (17m 3s): I think it’s really hard for a lot of people with today’s food. And I don’t know that I could intuitively eat like a lot of things. Like I just don’t, I don’t know if that means I’m like I’m bad at intuitive eating or if it just means that certain foods you can’t really be intuitive with because they’re not, they’re not working with your body intuitively. So Brad (17m 27s): Yeah. I’d like to hit on that a little more because I think the personality type is probably something that we should apply more rather than, you know, I’ve had one guest on saying one thing and another guests on saying another thing. And one of them said, you know, or actually talking to a dietician certified dietician where they don’t want to directly tell the person don’t eat all that ice cream. They say, eat a spoonful and therefore you won’t obsess about it. And you’ll be rewarded just going to keep it under control. And I’m like, well, I’m not sure that’s a blanket approach that’s going to fit everybody. Brad (18m 9s): One of my shows, Melanie’s called The Fatty Popcorn Boy’s Saga. And it’s a story about me where I started making bowls of popcorn at night for fun and celebration. I think visiting family and holiday times, and here’s another bowl and I drizzle lemon flavored olive oil on it. And it’s fantastic. And so it went from a celebratory treat to a regular fixture in my evening routine because I was starting to build a habit in the wrong direction. And all of a sudden I discovered a higher number on the scale. Then, you know, my reference point is my driver’s license. I’ve had the same weight for 30 years or whatever. And all of a sudden it’s like, wait, that’s not me. What’s going on here. And so you can go down this slippery slope, especially with the hyper palatable addictive foods, to the extent that maybe the suggestion to just enjoy one spoonful of ice cream a night that might work for 23.8% of the population, it might be a disaster for you and I and another 25% who, you know, need to have more discipline and structure to where it’s not even a decision. Brad (19m 11s): It’s like the peanuts on the airplane where you’re, you’re offering to the person with a peanut allergy and they say, no, thank you. They don’t go well, it’s a long flight. Maybe I’ll try a few. It’s not even a thought or a decision. And I kind of liked that approach when we have so many challenges that we’re facing with the, the, you know, the processed foods. Melanie (19m 32s): Yeah. I, I could not agree more. And like you said, like I said, and you said, I, I do think it comes down a lot to your personality and how you, how you react. But I, I just feel, I feel like there’s such a pressure, especially with intuitive eating. It’s like, oh, if you can’t have, like you said, you know that one bite of ice cream, like if you can’t end without wanting more and like feeling worse from that, then it’s like, you failed at being intuitive when maybe, maybe your intuition, which is not to have any. And that was like, and that might be healthier for you in the longterm. But again, if you’re doing intuitive eating listeners and it’s working for you, please do it. Melanie (20m 13s): I wish I could do it the way it is presented. I think that’d be great. But it just, for me, I know what works and it doesn’t work for me. I feel more free with like, with boundaries that I work within. Brad (20m 28s): Yeah. Eliud Kipchoge just won the Olympic gold in the marathon for the second Olympics in a row. The greatest marathon runner of all times. And he also is a super quotable athlete. He comes up with these beautiful one-liners. And one of the things that he said that’s repeated a lot in the running scene is :only the disciplined ones in life are free. Otherwise you become a slave to your whims and passions. And I think they’re asking him how can you train that hard every single day. Now the guy runs 20 miles every day of his life. And he feels, he feels free and free to enjoy his life because of all the discipline and structure. And I think creating the winning environment is a huge deal where you don’t have to cultivate intuition or not because there’s no ice cream in your freezer. Brad (21m 17s): So it’s a done deal it’s over. Whereas you think about it differently. Lindsay Taylor, who we work with at Primal she’s, she says, you know, there’s a, there’s a plate of cookies sitting out in your house. It’s going to be a little different than if there’s no cookies around. Same with there. If there’s a kettlebell sitting in plain view, we want it in plain view in our visual field all day long, we’re going to be very much more likely to lift that kettlebell and do a few swings rather than if it’s in a cupboard, you know, out of view. So when it comes to food, oh my gosh. When you’re shopping, that’s probably when you’re really under the gun and that’s where you’re now you’re going to do a make or break your goals. Melanie (21m 59s): Yeah. I could not agree more. That’s an epic quote about the discipline. It’s kind of like when you, I have noticed this so much ever since I learned it, I’ve really realized just how true it is. But basically, cause you know, they say when you’re starting a new diet to just, you know, clear out the clear out the fridge and clear out the freezer of whatever you don’t want to be having under new diet. If your brain knows that there is access to something that is tempting to it, that you don’t want to have, it will like, it will keep your it’ll keep trying to get it for quite a while. Brad (22m 37s): Yeah. We’re all driving down the street to get cigarettes. You know, everyone’s familiar with that notion where you know that the house is free, but you can get in your car and drive six minutes down to the convenience store. It’s rough. Melanie (22m 53s): Yeah. Yeah. But even just like having something in your, in your cupboard that you don’t have on your plan, as long as it’s there, your brain will most likely try to find a way to get it. And I, I’m just not for I’m for setting up your environment and your life to be, to work with your willpower and not drain it during the day. Brad (23m 18s): Hold on, rewind the tape people. That’s a great one. Right. You know, w w we’re going to drain our willpower or we’re going to kind of keep it at bay because there’s no willpower necessary. Melanie (23m 29s): Exactly. Which with intermittent fasting, I think that’s one of the most freeing things that people don’t really realize until they try it, which is the amount of decisions you don’t have to make anymore because you’re just around food. So you just decide your window, that you’re eating in. And then you’re just, it’s not even a question you’re not eating outside of that. So you’re not having to engage in those constant. Should I eat? Should I have a snack? Should I stop eating? Should I like just all day, you just eat in your window or maybe eat your two meals in your window, your book, and then, and then you’re good. Brad (24m 6s): So the, you said, what works for you is this one meal a day where you can be free and unrestrained when it’s time to eat. You’re not, I imagine you’re not counting calories when you sit down for your first meal and you’re, you’re saying that you’ve carried that through for a long time. That’s why that’s your favorite pattern? Melanie (24m 27s): Yeah. So I’ve been doing the quote one meal a day. It normally ends up being about four hours. What I’ve found that works for me personally, because again, I’m all about what works for the individual, is for me, I found the, the most beneficial thing for either losing weight or maintaining my body composition and also not exacerbating any metabolic issues is to do either low carb, potentially high fat, but low carb or high fat, low carb. So I will do one or the other. So there’s always, it’s always high protein. It’s always a lot of protein. Melanie (25m 7s): And then I either do fat or I do carbs, usually it’s carbs actually, which I normally do a ton and ton of ton of fruit, you know? Brad (25m 16s): Yeah. That’s interesting. I think there’s a lot of support for this idea now that the pairing of fat and carbs, which is unknown to nature or ancestral diet is what, what, what triggers us. And that’s, if you can name the top 50 comfort foods, indulgent foods, they’re usually pairing fat carbs and salt together, cheesecake ice cream, potato chips, whatever. And, you know, we kind of get stuck in this idea that you’re a low carb ancestral person, or you’re a vegan plant-based and it’s going to be a war forever. But you, what you just said, I think kind of hopefully will put a lot of people at ease who are wondering, you know, who’s right and who’s wrong and who’s smarter than the other person. Brad (25m 60s): But making, making one or one or the other choice you’re going to get that satiety that you are looking for from mostly from the protein. And then perhaps from enjoying a ton of fruit, it’s, you know, at a certain point, you’re not going to overeat on fruit, nor are you going to overeat on high-fat completely savory treats. But boy, putting them together with the blueberry cheesecake, that that could be a whole different story. Melanie (26m 29s): Yeah. And I’ve thought about this a lot, especially because on the intermittent fasting podcast, we get so many questions from listeners who a lot of, a lot of them are doing low carb or keto and fasting, and they’re terrified of carbs. Like they think the only way that they can lose weight or maintain their weight is being low carb. And I think one of the biggest kind of mindful moments too, or like mind blown paradigm shifts to think about is if you’re eating low fat, I say it so like nervously, but I just think like low fat in the paleo keto world is kind of frowned upon. But if you’re eating low fat, high protein with carbs, especially in a fasting window, like the, the, the potential for fat storage actually isn’t that huge. Melanie (27m 23s): So protein doesn’t easily become fat. It’s normal, you know, it’s mostly used for building our bodies and then it, if it’s turned into some fuel, maybe like gluconeogenesis, some glucose there it’s rarely turned into fat. Carbs, you know, our, our first gonna fill up our glycol, our glycogen stores. So that’s a big thing for them. And then after that, they can return to fat, but it’s a very small percent relative to like the potential for it, at least in the clinical trials on it. So like the carb to fat, like, because people will say carbs turn to fat, they do, but it’s not as much that as you just store the fat, they’re eating with the carbs. Melanie (28m 8s): So if you’re actually doing like a low fat, high protein, high carb diet, especially in a fasting window, I actually find it’s pretty hard. It would be hard to gain fat doing that. And if anything, you might lose weight. And I think a lot, so a lot of our listeners will be doing low carb for so long. And then we present this idea and then they try it and are very surprised. Brad (28m 31s): They’re very surprised at the results. I mean the good results. Melanie (28m 37s): Yeah. Brad (28m 37s): Yeah. This is pretty, pretty heavy stuff. Melanie you’re, you’re on the cutting edge here. And I’m wondering if there’s anyone out there who’s recoiling a little from this crazy idea that a high carb is high carbs are not going to be stored as fat. I think it’s a good time now to open up the umbrella that covers everything over here, really nicely described by Dr. Herman Pontzer in his new book Burn. And I had a couple interviews with him. The second interview being a full length devil’s advocate, hammering on this guy to make sure he knew what he was talking about. It’s look, this is my life’s work people. The science doesn’t lie. We know how many calories people burn, but the amazing takeaway insight from, from his life’s work, his research Duke University, evolutionary anthropologists is that human calorie burning is constrained. Brad (29m 26s): We burn around the same number of calories each day, whether we exercise or not, end quotes. And so if that’s the case, then whatever calories you eat, it, it really is whether you’re going to eat more or burn more, and eat too much. And whether it’s carbs or fat is completely irrelevant. And he mentioned this guy on the Twinkie diet. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that, but he was an actual science scientist guy who said, here’s how much I weigh and here’s how many Twinkies I’m going to eat. And he recorded everything and he lost a ton of weight because he only ate four Twinkies a day. And so he had this caloric deficit, not saying it’s healthy, not saying it’s recommended, but it does put into light or it kind of negate some of this crazy, you know, hip commentary that there’s a, there’s a way to hack this. Brad (30m 20s): That’s a way from actual metabolic science. And so what you’re saying is accurate period. And if you don’t like that, people, you know, maybe try eating in a narrow eating window and having a bunch of fruit and you’d be surprised at your results. Melanie (30m 37s): Well, actually, can I tell you what I think is also related to related to this? What I think is one of the other most mind-blowing things and misconceptions and the low carb world? So people often in the low carb world think we know that fat doesn’t elicit a huge insulin response. So the, the thought from that is okay, fat doesn’t release insulin. So I can have a lot of fat and I won’t gain weight from it. When really, I think the reason it doesn’t elicit a huge insulin response is because it is so easily stored without insulin. So the complete opposite takeaway that you could have extracted from this fact is that eating fat is actually very easily stored as fat, not, not the opposite. Melanie (31m 27s): And I just think that’s one of the biggest paradigm shifts for low carb lower carb world. Brad (31m 38s): Hmm, Dr. Cate Shanahan says that anything you eat will elicit some insulin response. We know that proteins stimulates insulin and also stimulates glucagon. So you don’t have the insulin spike as much as eating straight carbs, but even a snack that’s high in fat is going to shut off the burning of stored body fat, stimulate an insulin response. And then what are you going to do with those calories? Maybe you’ll you’ll burn them, but like you say, the fatty acids are in good molecular shape to go right into storage, converted into triglycerides. So now we’re kind of getting over, drifting over with the conversation, into this idea of intermittent fasting as being as important, maybe more important than nitpicking your macros and pricking your finger until you get scar tissue about how your ketone levels are just quit eating so fricking frequently and snacking all day long. Brad (32m 33s): So I’m going to tee you up in that direction to go to go deeper into this intermittent fasting concept. Melanie (32m 42s): Sure. So I, so intermittent fasting, I think it gets rid of all of the issues. Or so if you’re, if you were eating, if you’re eating all throughout the day, there’s this, you have to have this whole dialogue of insulin release and am I fat storing? Am I fat releasing it? You know, what is my meal doing? Intermittent fasting, just like, short-circuits just go, goes all straight, straight around that. Because once you do enter the fastest state, I mean, there is no other option. You have to pull fuel from somewhere. So, and that can seem like an extremist approach to things, but as you know, and probably a lot of listeners know, because you do enter a fat burning state and potentially a ketogenic state, you are filled with fuel from within. Melanie (33m 31s): So you’re not hungry or you shouldn’t be once you adjust to it. So yeah. And I’ve actually thought and tying it back into what we were saying about the different macronutrients. I’ve thought about this a lot. And I it’s, it’s an interesting dichotomy to picture or to, to paint. And I’m not sure if I can articulate it, but I think about this a lot. So if you are on a low carb, low carb diet, you know, you’re keeping insulin low. So it’s going to be very easy or it’s going to be easy to release your fat stores. So it’s pretty easy to burn fat. But then as mentioned with the, the fat storage potential of fat and fat being a really easy macronutrient to store, I think it’s actually at the same time, very, very easy to store fat from your meals because fat is easily stored, so easy to burn fat, but also easy to store fat. Melanie (34m 27s): On the flip side with like a high carb diet, a high carb, low fat diet coupled with fasting. So you, it’s going to be less light, easy to burn fat because you might because of the carbs, keeping your storage and storage. But then when you eat, as we mentioned with those macros, it’s actually unlikely to store fat from it. So you have a situation now where maybe it’s less likely to burn fat, but also less likely to store fat. I don’t know if this is a dichotomy worth contemplating, but I actually contemplate it a lot. And I think you can get the best of both worlds by either doing low carb, but not going super. Melanie (35m 9s): If you’re wanting to lose weight going low carb, but not going super crazy high fat. So now you’re in the fat burning mode, but you don’t have to worry as much about the fat storage from the fat or with the high carb, low fat approach. You’re not going to easily store fat from eating. So coupling it with fasting. Now you’re getting your fat burning potential from there. So that’s why I think that the, the fasting with, for a lot of people, the higher carb approach can actually work pretty well. Higher carb, lower fat dairy. I think about this a lot. Brad (35m 44s): Yeah, there are a couple of followups and one of them is that we weather a fair amount of opposition from, from the female voice that the fasting can be a little trouble or the intermittent, the window due to a female hormonal patterns, striving for reproductive fitness, our number one, biological drive, especially fit females. And so I’ve seen some direct commentary saying, don’t try this if you’re a fit female. I wonder if you’ve kind of been hit with some of those objections to the recommendation to spend a lot of time fasted. Melanie (36m 27s): Yes. A lot of questions. So I, again, I’m really, oh, and first of all, not a doctor, not a doctor I’m very much about. Brad (36m 38s): So that means, you know, a lot about nutrition, I guess, no offense doctors, but the training in nutrition not necessarily would be the correct answer. And some actresses don’t know shit about nutrition and some of them know a lot because they study it. So I think I like to put a little commercial in here for the idea that, you know, we’re looking at people’s credentials constantly are trying to grab onto something that make them seem like an authority. And when it comes to athletics or fitness, I like people who have been there and done that. So some guy on a YouTube video, or gal, who’s got a six pack. They probably know what they’re doing in some way, because they’re doing it in their own life. Brad (37m 18s): And same with nutrition. If you’ve been living and breathing and stuff, I think you have way more credibility than some doctor who probably speaks out of turn more frequently than they should, because they don’t necessarily know what they’re talking about. Melanie (37m 31s): Yeah. I’m, I’m all for empowering people to, you know, take things into their own hands. And like Google scholar is like my favorite thing in the world. I just love, like you can read all of the studies that the same, the same things that the doctors would be reading. You can read it and then you can, then you can implement things in your life and see how they actually manifest. So, so yes, we are, we are on the same page there. But as far as the female aspect goes so well to start, I think the majority of the backlash against fasting for women, it’s, there’s, there’s not a lot of clinical literature in human females showing the issues. Melanie (38m 24s): So the majority of the, of the studies showing and, you know, problems with females specifically and fasting are conducted in rodents and one of the largest, or one of the biggest problems and my opinion for why this is problematic is fasting in a rodent is like, so a 24 hour fast in a rodent is the equivalent of days and days and days and a human. So all of these studies looking at oh, 24 hour fast and a rodent that’s like fasting for days. And the rodent reproductive cycle is much more sensitive to restriction and dietary fluctuations than a human. Melanie (39m 7s): So I don’t know how much of the information from the rodent studies we can extrapolate to female women. The studies that do look at women and fasting often find a lot of really good effects for women, even things hormonal like TCOs and things like that. Granted, most of them are in women that are overweight. And I think where the issue comes in. Cause I do think an issue very easily comes in with women and fasting. So I was building all that up, not to say, oh, fastening is completely fine for women all the time. I actually don’t think that. I think, I don’t think fastening by itself is necessarily restrictive, but I think it can easily become restrictive if you make it so. Melanie (39m 49s): And if it’s coupled with re dietary restriction, which a lot of women do either on purpose or not on purpose and or intense exercise, I think it can easily become too restrictive. It can be just, it can compound. So I don’t think it’s necessarily the fasting, this, the issue. I think that it’s really important to look at your entire lifestyle. And what signal are you sending to your body with the fasting, the food, and the exercise? Brad (40m 22s): Ooh, I like that little throw in at the end. If you’re training like an idiot doing CrossFit five days a week, you’re going to go onto the internet and start criticizing fasting, but we got to go look at everything for sure. Yeah. And in fact, I guess I should pose this as a question to you during the ask Melanie section of the show, but I like this idea of personal experimentation and I do a lot of it myself. So I’m, you know, I can’t be pigeonholed into this is how I eat every single day. I’m on the 16 and eight pattern forever. So things change. And I kind of adding up these compounding, like you call it where I’m trying to do these super ambitious sprinting and jumping workouts that are really strenuous. Brad (41m 9s): So that’s one, if you’re counting number two, I’m in the older age groups now, which I kind of refuse to believe, but then I acknowledge when I, when I get home and feel fried after pushing myself too hard in the workout. So I’m in the older age group, I’m trying to do crazy workouts and I eat really cleanly. I don’t, you know, mess around with overeating and whatnot. So perhaps my carbohydrate intake is on the low side and you know, my caloric intake is on the optimal side. But at times if you’re talking about, you know, fasting window, eating the cleanest foods, the most calorically efficient foods and trying to do crazy stuff and being older age group, my, my insight at one point was like, what if I came home and, you know, stuffed the blender full of an incredible smoothie with all kinds of calories, carbs, protein, fat, whatever it is in the interest of recovering. Brad (42m 2s): And so maybe there’s not too many people in this category that have too many stress factors because we know that fasting is a stressor in itself and the body has to kick in stress hormones into the bloodstream to liberate energy into the bloodstream and all that great stuff. And that’s all fine and dandy. If you’re sitting at work, you’re going to be concentrating and feeling great. But what about when you’re, I don’t know, in a stressful 16 hour movie shoot where you’re maybe not going hand in hand with not eating any food. Melanie (42m 37s): Yeah. I mean, it’s such, it’s such a difference in the context because, you know, people, I love what you said, like people who are, you know, doing, which is amazing, but doing like really, really intense CrossFit, you know, every single day, I think for them, you know, fasting very likely a lot of the time might be too stressful. That doesn’t mean that it does not mean that fasting by itself is equates restriction like for like over restriction. So I think it’s when you move from restriction to over restriction. So yeah. And then I, I, I shouldn’t say, I do think, I do think women, so because men could be over restrictive as well, obviously like you were just talking about, I do think that said when you hit that over restrictive paradigm or way of being that women’s bodies are more sensitive to it hormonally. Brad (43m 32s): So, so messaged to the females, listening who are at their optimal body composition, are they in a different category decision-making category or something where we don’t want to get lower than necessary body fat and throw off reproductive function or other downstream thyroid, everyone talks about the thyroid slowing down. What do you think about that? Melanie (43m 58s): So like, oh, so is the question like if you’re optimal, is it safe to fast or does fasting like it? I think if you’re at your, you know, the body that you want to be at, you want to maintain its optimal optimal, you, you can win. Yes. You can 100% find a fasting window that works for you. Brad (44m 23s): Which might be a small one, I mean it might be 12 hours. Right? Melanie (44m 30s): Right. So it might, it might be, you might, you need a longer window. You might need to eat more in a shorter window. Like I’m not actively losing weight. I just maintain my weight. I still eat usually and have been eating like a four hour window, but I eat a lot in that window. So you really just have to look at yourself. I, if, if the question I like, if the question is, is there a body composition where you just can’t fast? I mean, I think if, you know, if you’re underweight to the point of being like where you meet, where you actively need to gain weight, that might be an exception. Brad (45m 13s): Sure. There are also seems like if you are carrying excess body fat, you’re frustrated with your past efforts to remove that excess body fat. Maybe you’re have a different set of decision-making parameters than someone who is an optimal body fat, where there’s not going to be this intuitive backdoor answer to be like, sure, don’t fast that long. Cause you you’re cranky in the morning. If you don’t eat a huge sugary breakfast. I mean that, that’s probably a safe, safe assumption to say, look, if you need to get rid of excess body fat, let’s throw these tools into place. Melanie (45m 48s): Yeah. And actually I’m speaking to that. Can I do a quick, a quick plug for your new book, Two Meals a Day. People I really liked the chapter. I don’t know if it was, I was listening. So it’s hard to know if it was like a section or a chapter, but I really liked the, the part you guys had a part about, you know, hacks to, you know, really oh yeah. Brad (46m 12s): Advanced strategies. Melanie (46m 13s): Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was quite excellent. And I thought I was great because it was it’s things that might be perceived to stay in the lake controversial waters, things that might be perceived as culturally, you know, too restrictive or too extreme. But I think these are very valid tools that we can use to depending on what your goals are and what you want. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with desiring a certain body composition and you know, utilizing smart tool. Like there, there are healthy ways. There are healthy, advanced strategy ways to get there compared to just completely unhealthy lifestyle purchase that just might wreck you. Melanie (47m 2s): So I appreciated that section. Brad (47m 6s): Thank you. I appreciate that. If you’re listening carefully, you notice, especially when you’re talking about the dichotomies and the different things, the common theme running through is that emphasis on protein. So I’d love to touch on that, especially with your results and experience tiptoeing on, on both sides of the tight rope, but always having protein as the fixture. Melanie (47m 29s): Yes. Protein is my obsession. I yesterday interviewed Dr. David Minkoff. He wrote a book called The Perfect Protein, I think. And it was my first I’ve had, and I’ve had Dr. Ted Naiman on the show and we went deep in protein there, but the show this week was like the deepest of deep dives into amino acids and protein. And it was really, really excellent, but I just think I am haunted, oh, going back to the dichotomy. I am haunted. I’m haunted because on the one hand, there are a lot of advocates for of low protein diets for health and longevity, particularly in the vegan world and even the fastening world like Dr. Melanie (48m 12s): Valter Longo. And then on the flip side, we have people who are very, very pro protein. It haunts me, but my thoughts on the matter are when it comes to different macronutrients, especially body composition, weight loss, health, so many things like protein is the magic macronutrient for that. It’s what builds your body. It’s, it’s the highest correlation to satiety, you know, has a good thermogenic effect. So you’re burning more calories, eating it. Then the other macronutrients. After so lower protein intakes are correlated longevity up until a certain age. Melanie (48m 53s): But then once you hit a certain age, that correlation disappears and you actually had higher protein intakes, which I think is very telling for the role that it’s doing in our, in our bodies. So, especially since our, when our bodies are aging, the fact that we now need more protein, I think is pretty telling. But I do think that diets aside, focusing on protein is in my opinion, probably the place to focus. I do think that for the longevity aspect, cause people will say you should do low protein because it doesn’t stimulate them as much. Melanie (49m 36s): And it’s anti-aging. But I think you can get those benefits if you combine it with fasting, for example. Because then you’re going into a, you know, a period of no indoor during the day. And also mitigating things like IGF one. So I I’m a fan of protein. Brad (49m 56s): Yeah. I love it. Your opinion here is supported by many of the world’s leading experts. I particularly appreciate how there’s been some backlash against this black and white thinking of saying, eat less protein. Down-regulate these growth factors. If you’re not familiar with IGF one or <inaudible>, these are the, the stated agents that if you overstimulate them by stuffing your face with too much food, your whole life, it’s going to increase your risk for cancer and unregulated cell growth. But now we’re coming to our senses a little bit more saying, look, we, we know that getting minimal protein is absolutely essential and dabbling in restricting protein is going to turn you into a mess. Brad (50m 38s): You’re going to be cranky, emaciated, experiencing intense cravings for high protein foods. This is from Dr. Chris Kresser spreading this message that we don’t want to go mess around with, with low protein diet. And then when we talk about getting as much as we need or more, and there’s a lot of benefits toward pushing that, that number like Dr. Ted says so well too. The protein to energy ratio and the diet for one thing, it’s difficult to over-consume protein, because I don’t know, raise your hand if you’ve ever eaten too many omelets and feel terrible at the breakfast bar or had two steaks. And then I wish I wouldn’t have that third. No, it’s so satiating that you’re going to eat just as much as you need. Brad (51m 19s): And if you’re getting plenty, what you just mentioned of turning on and off those growth factors, that’s the secret to longevity. You can listen, Dr. Peter Attia go deep on this matter, but M Tor and IGF one are not all the way around bad guys nor is insulin. And this is what helps us preserve muscle mass. I, I took a great quote from Robb Wolf interview where he said, Hey, if you want to live longer, it’s looking now that you want to lift more weights and eat more protein. Rather than walk around weak and emaciated. And people tease, you know, the long-term vegans of looking like they’re shriveled up and about to blow away in the wind. I don’t, I don’t need to be, you know, dramatic here, but this is a big one for many people who are maybe feeling a little confused about people, you know, blanket statement that you, you don’t want to eat too much protein or, or big dangers occur. Brad (52m 11s): Oh, and finally, since I’m rambling so long, Melanie’s having a lunch over there, a high protein thing, but the thermic effect of protein has been measured at 25%, which means 25% of the protein calories you consume go toward digesting that protein. So again, you’re not going to overeat protein and get yourself into a bind of gaining weight or anything like that, because it’s so essential to the body system says don’t even count it in your calorie count because it’s sort of irrelevant to your, your, your, your fat loss goals or your, if you are tracking macros. Melanie (52m 49s): Yeah. Actually, and I’m not promoting this and I am a little bit embarrassed to admit it, but probably the, the first time, like the biggest weight loss chunk I experienced was when I had the, during my dietary experimentation days, but being low carb. And after fasting, I realized that, you know, if you basically just ate protein, that it was very, very, very unlikely. You would gain weight and most likely would lose weight. So I basically just ate protein for, I don’t know, maybe like a year, and I don’t recommend that, but I think definitely speaks to the, the power of that macronutrient. Melanie (53m 33s): It’s also kind of like the, the alcohol macronutrient people often think that, you know, you gain weight from alcohol, but you’re not gaining weight from alcohol. Alcohol doesn’t become fat. Like it just doesn’t. So you’re getting away from whatever you ate. Brad (53m 52s): Yeah. Quick, quick lesson alcohol is burned immediately. It doesn’t convert to anything it’s immediately burned. Otherwise you’re going to die. Right. And so what happens is it puts the burning of all the other calories on hold, such that especially removing it from the blood stream. So you’re going to get a drop in blood sugar, and you’re going to crave the pizza and the other things that are going to cause you to gain weight from your alcohol habit or a mixed drink where you’re consuming the carbohydrates. Those can’t be burned because the margarita has to be burned first. And so where they’re going to go, they’re going to get stored as fat. Melanie (54m 28s): Yeah, exactly. Brad (54m 28s): So, oh, back to your, you know, your, your, your secret commentary that a high protein diet works for fat loss. I think it’s important to talk straight about these things because to me clearly, that’s the most effective strategy to drop excess body fat and do it quickly and efficiently. And I think that’s why a lot of the reason why the carnivore diet has exploded in popularity is it’s by default a very high protein, high nutrient density, high satiety diet, which you have no problem sticking to. And the fat is going to melt off like no other diet. Now there’s this concept called rabbit starvation. And these weird things that happen if you eat only protein. Brad (55m 8s): So just as Melanie qualified her statement, don’t eat just protein or you’re gonna, you know, get into weird potential stuff. But I think most people you can’t help, but you’re going to add a sufficient number of carbs or fat to get you to a place where you feel good, you’re dropping excess body fat, and you have no problem sticking to the diet as long as necessary. Melanie (55m 31s): Yeah. And actually to that point, I’m not for crash dieting, but I think if one were to crash diet, like if they had to lose a, Brad (55m 42s): if one landed a huge movie role and they said, we need you to get in shape. Yeah. Melanie (55m 46s): Yes. Or they have like a wedding and 10 day wedding they’re probably no longer about than today’s, you know, like a sort time period. .I do think the healthiest way to lose fat quickly is like, is the protein sparing, modified protein sparing, modified fast that people do where basically they’re, you know, eating calorie restricted, but it’s basically just protein because then you’re supporting your minimal body functions and your muscle, but it’s just, your body has to turn a fat for fat burning. Not meant to be long term, but I do think it just speaks to the science of how protein is used the body and how you can maybe use that to your advantage if you needed to. Melanie (56m 32s): But again, that’s not meant to be long-term. Brad (56m 35s): This show is I’m enjoying it cause I didn’t know there was that much to talk about. I feel like we’re. So we were talking before we hit record about the book writing process and how arduous it is to start with a blank page and finished with 347 pages of talking about eating strategies and ancestor living. And whenever I’m done Mark and I talk on the phone and we say, man, I don’t think there’s anything more we can say, but Melanie’s just loaded us with interesting insights. And there’s a lot more to say. So I encourage people to go flip over to your podcast on intermittent fasting. We’re definitely going to have to have to have your back to talk about the other side of the coin. Brad (57m 14s): So maybe just give us a little a teaser about what’s your favorite stuff in the biohacking world and what you talk about on that show. Melanie (57m 24s): Oh goodness. So that is, so the biohacking world is the rabbit holes of rabbit holes of rabbit holes, but it’s basically all of the technologies, supplements, lifestyle, things that you can do in your daily life to upgrade your body’s performance. I actually think it’s using modern technology to return to what we once were as, so it’s like, you know, it’s like using technology to tackle your light exposure. So we light blocking glasses, red light therapy, making our modern homeostatic environment actually more difficult. So doing cryotherapy or saunas, it can even go as crazy. Melanie (58m 5s): My recent obsessions I’m I, this whole time I’ve been drinking deteriorate, depleted water. That is a rabbit hole to go on. It’s either like the most important thing ever or not. But I think it might be the most important thing ever. Mitigate mitigating EMF using different modalities for like meditation. So rather than just normal meditation, it might be like, you know, Wim Hof breathing or meditation devices like muse, or I got this device called core that you hold in your hands and it vibrates it’s basically. Yeah. All of the crazy things that you can do in your daily life to hopefully enhance your experience of life, make you feel healthier. Melanie (58m 52s): And like I mentioned, really just combating our modern environment because our modern environment is just not, not ideal, not ideal. Brad (59m 1s): Well said. I like that. And I, I like going back to the basics lest anyone get confused or overwhelmed. And so before you go into your red light box or your sauna or your chest freezer, you know, let’s make sure that like these big picture items that are so easy to just transition away from, but still blasting our eyeballs, you know, with, with light late at night, maybe reading an interesting article about the benefits of red light therapy for mitochondria, but in my own personal life, I’m really trying to just, if I can just put some rules into place that give me a fighting chance to go pursuing rabbit hole optimization things. Brad (59m 43s): That’s, what’s fun. And I know you and I are both fans of people like Ben Greenfield and Peter Attia and people pushing out on the cutting edge. But when I interact with real people, like my buddies from high school, and we’re talking about this or that, and someone sticks a plate of nachos and my face, it’s Brad, is this healthy or not? Yes or no. You know, they want like a quick answer and just things to, to carry with them so they can at least have a fighting chance. And so I’m, I’m really thinking we don’t want to skip over any of those steps, but then, oh my gosh, isn’t it fun and exciting to, you know, address all these different ways. And I’ve never quite heard it put that way where, you know, we think about this concept of becoming super human and having a incredible energy, but it’s really like, all you want us to do is get back to general baseline human expectation rather than being a sorry, ass, modern human that’s getting bombarded with all this stuff that’s, that’s compromising our energy. Melanie (1h 0m 38s): Yeah. I just think we as human beings, like we have all of the potential and the energy and the joy and the love all inside of us. It’s just very much hampered and dampen by our chronic lifestyle today. So just starting there undoing what has been done. It can take you to a huge, incredible place. Brad (1h 1m 0s): Dave Rossi, my good friend, frequent podcast, guests, author of The Imperative Habit. Very spiritual guy teaches a meditation course online. And you know, what his secret is for, for happiness? Its to get rid of all the stuff that makes you unhappy. And what you have left is this inherent happiness. It’s a great concept. Melanie (1h 1m 22s): Oh, I love that. That’s beautiful. Yeah. It’s like, like, Dorothy, it was always in your own backyard all. Brad (1h 1m 28s): Oh yeah, yeah. Or the alchemists follow Paulo Coelho’s Best-selling book, right? Yeah. Melanie Avalon killing it. People go listen to intermittent fasting podcasts, listen to the Melanie Avalon biohacking podcast. I appreciate you spending time with us. We got way more than we bargained for. It was, it was hard hitting heavy hitting. We’re going to have to listen to this at 1.0 speed instead of the usual 1.5 or the 1.75. So because there are so many insights to pull out and it was always interesting. Melanie (1h 1m 55s): Well, thank you so much for having me, Brad, I’ve been such a fan of your work for so, so long. So this is just like the biggest honor ever. And you are just like, I’ve just barely met you, but you, you just have the most amazing spirit it comes across and, and your work, your podcasts, your books, everything, and you’re doing incredible things. So I’m honored. Brad (1h 2m 24s): Thank you, Melanie. Thanks for listening, everybody. Thank you for listening to the show. I love sharing the experience with you and greatly appreciate your support please. Email podcast@bradventures.com with feedback, suggestions and questions for the Q and shows. Subscribe to our email list of Brad kearns.com for a weekly blast about the published episodes and a wonderful bimonthly newsletter edition with informative articles and practical tips for all aspects of healthy living. You can also download several awesome free eBooks when you subscribe to the email list. And if you could go to the trouble to leave a five or five star review with apple podcasts or wherever else, you listen to the shows that would be super, incredibly awesome. Brad (1h 3m 10s): It helps raise the profile of the B.rad Podcast and attract new listeners. And did you know that you can share a show with a friend or loved one by just hitting a few buttons in your player and firing off a text message? My awesome podcast player called Overcast allows you to actually record a soundbite excerpt from the episode you’re listening to and fire it off with a quick text message. Thank you so much for spreading the word and remember B.rad.

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