Get ready for an incredible story from K84 Wellness podcast host and nutrition coach Kate Ouellette-Cretsinger from Peterborough, NH. Kate will talk about her long journey into diet optimization, which started with a lifetime of suffering from what we now know as leaky gut syndrome, to discover vegetarian, then keto vegetarian for seven years, and finally, an amazing awakening into the carnivore diet.
Kate relates some amazing success stories with the carnivore strategy: her daughter’s managing depression, anxiety, and losing 85 pounds in a single year and a client’s success from decades-long debilitating illness Crohn’s disease. Kate tried it and found that she experienced greater mental clarity, as well as an improvement in digestive function. To celebrate the first anniversary of her carnivore eating, Kate dreamed up an incredible solo challenge of riding her bicycle the length of Vermont, from the Canadian border to the Massachusetts border. This was a ride of 225 miles over two days, and 14,500 feet of climbing!
Kate also shares stories from her health journey and details what led her to the amazing place she is today. She reflects on the way her diet has changed and the days when she used to drink 8 juices in a single day, assuming that the gas and bloating she was experiencing were normal. She also shares how once she went vegetarian keto, she felt much clearer mentally, started sleeping better, and also just felt lighter as the inflammation in her body began to decrease. She also realized that everything is connected and that getting rid of the inflammation in her head was the first thing she had to, before all else. “When you get rid of that inflammation in your head, it opens possibilities to other things too,” she says. She started paying attention to what was going on inside her head, the meaning behind the words she was saying, and the stories she was continually telling about herself, including negative self-talk, and began to focus on working on all aspects of her life, and not just the diet part.
“I kept working on the internal stuff…and it is hard work to keep changing those thoughts,” Kate comments. However, once she changed the way she ate (particularly with adding in fat) she found that it wasn’t as hard anymore….in fact, it wasn’t hard at all for her to change her thoughts or to be less emotionally reactive and angry. This prompted Kate’s realization that “A lot of the nutrition that we eat does affect our brain” and the rest is history!
Today, Kate advocates for a nutrient-dense, carnivore diet for all her clients, and suggests going strictly carnivore for two weeks, (then you can start to slowly incorporate avocado) for those who want to decrease inflammation and identify any potential irritants in their diet. She also makes the convincing case for eating fruit, and says, “Anything that comes off the plant, is what I would suggest eating.” Another tip from Kate: carefully look through the ingredient list of your supplements, because if you have reactions to a certain ingredient in its whole food form, then it will still bother you if it is incorporated into a pill: “When you have a weak immune system, where you have something that’s bothering it, and then you’re adding [inflammatory foods] in, your body is more susceptible to having these symptoms and sensitivities.” Kate also points out that we are so used to symptoms of inflammation being so common that we think it’s normal when it is actually far from it: “Anything that is not normal is considered to be autoimmune. Headaches, joint pain….these things that we think are normal, are not normal.” Kate then walks us through the wonderfully detailed nutrient density chart she made for her clients to wrap up the show, so be sure to take advantage and take a few notes!
Enjoy this informative show with Kate and learn more at her health coaching website, K84Wellness.com
Brad introduces Kate, a nutrition coach, who has a very interesting story to tell of her dietary transformation. [01:32]
Most humans are just surviving, not thriving. [04:30]
After an unhealthy childhood, Kate became interested in nutrition when she went to college. [06:06]
The Institute of Integrative Nutrition is a prominent online meeting the individual needs of the client. [09:10]
Kate works with many chiropractic patients. How does she meet their needs? [10:55]
When Kate thought she was eating healthy, she focused on rice and beans, and suffered from gas and bloating. [13:03]
When you are dealing with this frantic stressful life, you lose sleep, lose focus, and usually, your nutrition goes to pot. The realization of the need for internal healing is the first step. [15:47]
Your internal struggles and nutrition are connected. [18:13]
We know more about female health. Eating red meat gets rid of PMS. [21:22]
What did she notice that had to go in order to heal her gut? [23:10]
There is always room for improvement in anything we do. [26:54]
Red meat is actually a healthier choice than fish or chicken. [28:32]
What protocol did you put on someone with Crohn’s disease or IBS? [31:19]
We can’t eat something until we soak, sprout, ferment, and render these things less harmful. [37:26]
Kate’s daughter’s switch to carnivore changed her life. Kate had to gradually cut back her avocados. [41:15]
Many of the fishes have a high metal count. There are many things that are better raw. [46:37]
What about things like plain high-fat yogurt or anything else from the cow? Is that part of her carnivore scene? [50:45]
Where does dark chocolate rank on the plant sensitivity scale? [52:20]
When your diet consists of nutrient-dense foods, it is easier to adhere to. [54:11]
Although plenty has been said about eating too much protein, we’re finding it is not such a big deal. [55:37]
To honor her year of carnivore experiment, Kate went on a 200-mile bike ride. She knew her body could do it without carbs. [57:07]
How do we find Kate’s nutrition coaching service? [01:12:40]
- Shopping page
- K84 Wellness Podcast
- Kate Ouellette-Cretsinger’s Facebook
- Institute for Integrative Nutrition
- Rhonda Patrick
- Dr. Paul Saladino
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Get Over Yourself Podcast
Brad (1m 32s): Hey listeners, we have a very interesting show coming up with Kate Ouellette Cretsinger all the way over in New England, the beautiful state of New Hampshire. She is a nutrition coach. And as you will find out an extreme athlete who did an amazing endurance feat of riding her bicycle 220 something miles over the course of two days on the road, riding from the Canadian border, all the way to Massachusetts through the beautiful state of Vermont on highway 100, and guess what? She did it without eating anything during her bike ride, absolutely mind blowing. And this was to celebrate her one year anniversary of adhering to the carnivore diet. Brad (2m 18s): And she has landed upon this thing on a wild and wacky journey where she tested all kinds of things over many, many years time to try to heal leaky gut. And her background is a vegetarian. So she really did explore all the nuances of healthy eating landed on this thing, tried it out with her daughter and amazing healing story from her daughter. So I think you’re going to love this background of a real person fighting the battle in real life with real clients and with the great success of her carnivore experiment. She also provides some awesome insights of this hierarchy of nutritious foods in the carnivore realm, starting with raw oysters, number one, and going all the way down the rankings. Brad (3m 1s): And so sorry, people, but chicken and turkey are at the bottom man. So you’re going to hear about a ranking for the first time for me, very interesting. And then also toward the end, we’re going to detail the incredible journey of her two day bicycle challenge across the great state of Vermont. So enjoy this wonderful show and go check out the K8for wellness podcast. I am an honored guest. We had a great show together. And so now here we get to learn more from Kate Ouellette Cretsinger. Kate Ouellette Cretsinger. We are back on. And I say that because I want people to go listen to your podcast, K8 for wellness. Brad (3m 44s): We had a great show with me as a guest and you know, these little tidbits come out of what you’ve been doing with your, your life this summer here in 2020, and I am blown away. So I, I am so honored to talk to a real athlete on this show, in case anybody’s tired of listening to me blab and about this and that. Now we’re going to throw down. And I think the, the, the teaser here is that you rode your bike 200 miles, which is mind blowing. But I think we should also celebrate your anniversary and talk about the dietary transformation that started a year ago. And if you want, since I’m giving you the floor, now, maybe you can introduce yourself, tell us about your work. Brad (4m 26s): And then, then we’ll flow right into this. Kate (4m 29s): Yeah, sounds great. Thank you for having me on and yes, the show that we did together, always every time we have you on it, there’s so much information that we talk about and cover, but thank you for having me here to share my story. So yeah, I, I’m a nutrition coach and I basically just help people to make it very simple, to change the way that they eat, just to help them thrive instead of just surviving. Cause I find that most humans are just surviving. They’re not thriving and we do that online. So it’s pretty simple. Like I do it in individually or in groups. And I also help people just, if it’s not just nutrition and we also look at exercising and cardio and things along those lines of well, just to live a healthy life and whatever that means for people. Kate (5m 15s): Sometimes it’s spirituality. We have to look at sometimes it’s just finding that joy again. Brad (5m 20s): So, so curiously, we, you know, we hear about nutrition, coaches, health coaches. Now it’s, it’s a burgeoning industry and there’s also the not to be confused with the classically trained nutritionists or registered dietician where you go to school and you get a degree in the four food groups and the grain based diet. So as a nutrition coach, I know there’s resources that are designed to train you. But of course you have your, your personal band and, and a lot of them are in the ancestral health scene. So how does that look for you? How do you call yourself a nutrition coach and what do you, what, what kind of, you know, I guess, bias or background do you bring to the table? Kate (6m 5s): Yeah, absolutely. So I went to a school called University of New England and they are DO school, so they are an osteopathic school. So they have a lot of holistic views on things. And when I went to school there, I did physical therapy. I started with physical therapy classes and ended up moving into exercise science. And the reason why I did that is because I was a single mom, raising two kids working full-time a full-time job and going to school full-time and I couldn’t drop into doing, you know, half of my PT classes during the school year and half during the summer that the Dean was just like, no, I can’t do that for you. I’d have to do it for everybody. So I ended up just going down into exercise science, which was perfect anyway, it ended up being great. Kate (6m 47s): So I had a lot of nutrition classes there and that kind of opened my eyes in University of New England. And so we had many, many discussions about the food pyramid and how it wasn’t healthy and which was kind of interesting because at that time it was really taboo because we didn’t, you know, most of us didn’t speak against that. And I was, it was 20 years ago when, when I was in college. So, so that kind of got me really interested in doing nutrition. It opened up my eyes. I myself was not healthy. I could have had a sick childhood. I was always on antibiotics, made myself as I was growing up, had a lot of gut issues. Kate (7m 30s): And that’s when it kind of opened my eyes a little bit there. So I decided to eat healthy and it was healthier than most Americans, but it still had a lot of carbs cause I was a vegetarian. So I still had a lot of carbs, but I stuck with the rice and thinking that that was healthier. Had a lot of beans, that kind of stuff. So stuff that still made you feel gassy and bloaty, right. So fast forward. And as, as I, I want to say about eight years ago, so late thirties, I realized that I still wasn’t where I needed to be and I was actually going downhill, not progressing. And so that’s when I found vegetarian keto. And when I did that, that’s when I started looking more into the nutrition, through integrative nutrition, the Institute for Integrative Nutrition. Kate (8m 18s): And they had a lot of, you know, ways that you could, you could approach nutrition. And that’s what I needed because I knew it wasn’t a one size fits all at the time. And I knew that when I was in college. But it was just finding where you could get all those resources was tough at the time. And so since I came out, you guys have a nice program. Mark Sisson has a nice program. And so there there’s things out there now that is not the normal, you know, nutrition classes that you can take. So there’s a lot of, and there’s a lot of people that you can actually learn from too, just by doing some of shadowing, going to visit reading their books. Kate (8m 59s): Now we have not awesome worldwide web where we can get anything. So yeah, I think if there’s a lot more at our fingertips now than before, Brad (9m 9s): So Institute of Integrative Nutrition, I I N, is this pretty prominent online course, I believe that they expose you to different factions of the, of the movement. Like you’ll have a module on paleo or keto and all that. So you’re not getting pigeonholed and you’re able to meet the needs of the client who might have, you know, some restrictions coming in. Like I am a vegan, don’t talk me out of it, but help me eat healthier. That kind of thing. Kate (9m 37s): Yes, Exactly. And that’s exactly what we did. And we were very lucky. We even, that’s where I, I met Mark Sisson, you know, was through that. Cause he did a course through there and he opened my eyes to, he was, had such a compelling story. I was like, Hmm, there’s something about this paleo. There’s something about this Keto that he was really talking about. And so that basically changed my life. And I was like, well, you know, if that’s changing me, there’s people out there that are going to need the needs, the same kind of advice that don’t have access or don’t even think about going to I I N. I went there to heal myself and then I ended up changing it into helping others and that we all go there for different reasons, whether it’s a loved one, whether it’s ourselves.You know, and then I started doing workshops, nutrition workshops at my husband’s office. Kate (10m 26s): And I was like, Oh, okay. You know, this is something I love. This is something that I want to do. He’s a chiropractor. And he’s into the paleo. He’s into all that stuff too. So it just worked out perfect where he could just, you know, focus on the chiropractic portion of things and I could do the nutrition. And so that’s when I started getting some clients from his patients and then it just kind of grew from there, which was really fun. It was fun to see what it’s evolved. Brad (10m 55s): So when you’re talking to a group of chiropractic patients, that’s not necessarily, and that that’s possibly a cross section of the community. Some people are in there because of their car accident, neck pain. And what, what kind of presentation did you see in your New England area and what were, what were the, you know, people eating like when they, when they came to see you? Kate (11m 17s): Oh, it’s so bad. Like, I feel like New England is so behind the times I really do, especially with the way I’m eating. Now, people look at me like I have 10 heads and like you’re doing what, but I think that we’re just so far behind the times that it, I had people that were just really doing the standard American diet. And it’s interesting that they think that they were eating healthy. I mean, even to this day, people that come to me and I’m like, I eat pretty healthy and then they rattle off what they eat when I ask them, what does a typical day look like? And there’s nothing in there that’s healthy. And it just blows my mind that people are still thinking that way. Brad (11m 53s): Well, the magazine ad in Shade Magazine or the internet commercial is, is aligned with what they’re doing. They’re, they’re reaching for their power bar instead of the Snicker bar. And so they’re, you know, they’re on the, they’re on the healthy path. And Oh my goodness. Yeah. It’s a long way to go. But I think we’re, you know, we’re inching inching in that direction as, as, as a society in general. Kate (12m 18s): Yeah. I agree. I’m seeing a lot more people accepting keto and they’re like, Oh, isn’t ketosis bad. Does it? Isn’t that mean that, you know, like, no, that’s totally different than, than the diagnosis because they think that, you know, it’s, it’s in the urine and all the sugar in the urine. I was like, no, acidosis. I was like, no, it’s not that. So it’s, it’s just really educating the people. And I, I, that’s what I strive for. And I love doing is just getting the knowledge out there as much as I can. And I love being that vessel for that. And which brings on why I did the 200 miles, which we’re going to get to eventually. But I just love having that information and more tools in my belt to help the people that are out there. Brad (13m 2s): Yes. Before we get on the bike and pedal away, I’m so fascinated by your, your passing comment. When you said I was eating the rice and beans and, and you know, gas and bloating, and you know, that’s been raise your hand listener if that’s been part of your life since day one. And of course it has for me. And when I was a triathlete, you know, we were consuming so many calories during the course of the day. And so the digestive tract was always traumatized because I had only eaten an hour and 30 minutes prior. And then I was in the swimming pool and burping and having all kinds of, you know, ongoing abdominal distress, which I came to consider as a normal everyday part of life, especially the gas and the bloating. Brad (13m 46s): And, you know, don’t get behind this guy on the trail run because the whole nature, and it was just funny and, you know, just routine. But, you know, then I just made an Instagram post recently about how I stopped making my super nutrition, raw vegetable green smoothie in the morning, which I published on YouTube for everyone to see three years ago. But, you know, I was, I was getting my stomach blown up every single time I drank that thing. And it wasn’t a horrible, sometimes it was worse than others. And I’ve had little transient pains of being like, Oh, and I have to sit down or hang upside down on my special contraption. And then I was talking to a friend of mine and he’s, you know, he, he made this smoothie too. Brad (14m 29s): And he said, yeah, I get stomach pain as well, every time. But it’s so healthy that it’s worth it. And that thing, you know, stopped me in my tracks because if something’s healthy you shouldnt experience gas, bloating, transient abdominal pain after consuming it, and you know, then, then we can sit back, take a deep breath and open ourselves up to a whole new perspective. And it sounds like, I don’t know. Tell me about your transition from the vegetarian eating the rice of beans to vegetarian keto. And how do you pull off vegetarian keto, by the way? Kate (15m 3s): Lots of avocados, lots of avocados and olives. I, my, one of my clients bought me a shirt that said, I’m an avocado-holic. It was just so bad that I would have at least five or six of those a day. I ate so many olives. But yeah, the transition from the vegetarian to vegetarian keto. First off I did Gerson’s therapy, which is all about juicing. I did like eight juices a day and, I like you, had the same issues. And I was still running. I was still doing CrossFit. I was still rock climbing. All of the stuff that I normally would do. And I just talked it off as that’s how I was going to have to be was the gas and the bloating that was normal. Kate (15m 47s): And then when I went vegetarian keto, what I noticed with that was it was more, I felt lighter. You know, like as that inflammation leaves your body, you don’t necessarily lose the weight, but you feel thinner. You feel lighter. That happened. And I also got a lot of brain clarity back because of all the fats that I had added in, I was one of those that was always eating low fat. No fat before keto. And so, you know, do that with a lot of the, the rice and the beans that doesn’t have a whole lot of nutrient content in it. Then you can really imagine where my brain was at to top it all off I was only getting four hours of sleep a night. And I had done that. I know I’m still around, Brad (16m 29s): Why? Kate (16m 29s): Because I was a single mom. I worked full time, went to school full time. I only had four hours of sleep, you know, and that was just what I had to do. I don’t, I honestly don’t remember most of my college. I remember waking up, I literally waking up in one of my classes just coming to, and I said, Oh my goodness, did I drop the kids off at daycare? That, to me, was like, scary. Yeah. And so I ended up moving closer to the school, you know, like I just kind of made some changes that way, but still, you know, I could only get four or five hours of sleep just because of the schedule. I had to put a roof over their head and pay for the food, you know, someone had to do that. Kate (17m 8s): So, so yeah, so I really didn’t get much sleep, but that kind of carried on even after I was done with college. Just my body was just used to that. And I was one of those people that would brag about it too. Like, you know, I only get four hours of sleep. I did this, I went hiking. I worked a full shift. I went home, slept for two hours, went for a hike, hiked like three mountains. And, you know, I mean, it was just normal. My body just kind of adapted. It’s amazing what it will do. So when I started doing the keto vegetarian, that’s when a lot of stuff started opening for me. So my brain got really clear. I started sleeping six hours, which was huge, which was huge before. Kate (17m 53s): And not only that, I had a lot of like internal healing. I had to do like mental, internal feelings, like, okay, what are you running for? What are you running from? What are you, why can’t you stop and be with yourself for a moment? You’re always on the go. So a lot of that stuff kind of came to a head when I went keto. Brad (18m 12s): Why do you say so? What’s the correlation? Kate (18m 17s): I believe it’s all connected. And I believe that when you get rid of that inflammation in your head, it opens the possibilities to other things too. Or it could also be you start feeling good and you’re noticing you’re feeling really well, but you’re not feeling well on these certain spots in these certain areas. You start paying attention to the stuff that’s going on in your head and the things that you’re saying and the stories you’re talking about yourself, you know, the bad self-talk, all of that stuff just started coming together all at once. Brad (18m 49s): Yeah. I can reference like being immersed in extreme training regimen as a, as a pro triathlete and living and breathing this stuff. You have so much sympathetic stimulation, fight or flight all day long that you kind of default into that way of existence. And so, you know, I remember like getting off the bike after an 80 mile ride and getting the stack of mail and reading that one of my sponsors was deciding to screw me or something and getting all amped up and calling and having a contentious conversation and just being constantly pumped up and jacked up rather than leading a balanced life. Brad (19m 30s): And I think there’s probably a lot of people that can reference this in, in other realms, like their high pressure career at the law firm. And then, you know, they, they spun out finally. I talked to a lot of females, especially who have that complete endocrine breakdown from, from going and going and going, probably fueling it with a, you know, high carbohydrate, high insulin producing diet. And sounds like you, you got yourself reigned in just in time. Really? Kate (20m 2s): I believe I did. Cause I knew it was, it was going downhill significantly. And I I’m just thankful that even that was right about the time that I met David too. So it, it was perfect timing. Cause he’s all, like I said, he was all about paleo and doing everything naturally and taking care of your body. And he always taught his patients the seven pillars of health, all of that stuff. So it, it was kind of a, it also helped being around that. He like, he turned me on to listening to Bruce Littmann and to Greg Braden and you know, Mike Dooley and all of those guys so that, you know, I, I believe when we’re open to hearing these things, we actually hear them. Kate (20m 43s): So it was, that is what started my journey eight years ago was going keto and working on all aspects of my life Brad (20m 52s): Years ago there was no keto. What are you talking about? Backdating? This was the Kate diet, which is now backdated to be called keto. Kate (21m 2s): Yes, It was so funny because I didn’t realize I was doing keto cause I just, it was adding more fats. But as the time went on, I was like, Oh, okay, this is exactly what I’m doing. I’m taking out the grains and adding more fat. Brad (21m 17s): So it was still vegetarian. Kate (21m 20s): I was, yeah. So when I was doing that, I call myself vegetarian because I would eat meat or eggs, like eggs that I have a severe reaction to. So it was, if I didn’t care how I felt, I’d eat them. But I would have probably burger, you know, a handful of times of the year. I wouldn’t have, even when I had it, it had to be cooked like burnt. It had to be cooked all the way through. It couldn’t be pink. It couldn’t be the shape of a burger. It had to be broken up. I mean, it was so bad. It was the texture that I didn’t like. So I didn’t eat meat because of the texture. It wasn’t because of ethical reasons or anything like that. So it was so I’d eat it a couple of times. And when I found out that I, when I needed it, when I felt my body was craving, it was right around my cycle. Kate (22m 5s): So that’s when I would eat it. Surprise, surprise. Right? so knowing what we know now about female health, you know, red meat is what we need to be eating if we want to get rid of any of our PMs stuff. So you can only imagine how I was during my cycle or leading up to that. It was horrendous. I mean the bad thoughts in my head,.How quickly I would get angry at people. Some of that did subside when I, when I went to keto, but when I added more fats, but it was still there. It still lingered. But I just kept working on it. I kept working on the internal stuff and, you know, thoughts become things, that kind of stuff. Kate (22m 46s): So I started working on that and it was a hard work, hard to keep changing those thoughts. But when I changed the way I’m eating now, it totally, it’s not hard work anymore. So it just lets me know that a lot of the nutrition that we eat does affect our brain. And as we know, you know, the nutrition that we eat also affects our hormones, which start in our gut. And so there was a lot of stuff going on there. I mean, there’s a lot of topics to uncover along that, but the, the biggest thing was healing the gut is what I had to do. And that in doing that, that was a journey in of itself. So, you know, learning what vegetables caused more distress, distress, excuse me, in my stomach. Kate (23m 31s): So a lot of the high lectin stuff I ended up taking out. So the beans came out, but you know, I would still eat the nuts and the seeds, even though those were pretty high, I felt like I could tolerate those more. Brad (23m 42s): So beans were out. Were anything like the leafy green or the cruciferous family also on that category, what was the stuff that needed to go to heal your gut? Kate (23m 53s): So the broccoli, the cauliflower, all of the night shades, so like tomatoes, peppers, those kinds of things had to go eggplant, which I loved, had to go. So basically I ate a lot of kale, which I realized was a problem for me a couple of years in, but Brad (24m 14s): You’re just narrowing it down I guess. And just to pause for a moment for the listener, like this is when you’re, when you’re have the intestinal permeability and leaky gut syndrome, those symptoms, which are so common and you’re probably dealing with the majority of your clients with some form of gut dysfunction. So when that’s happening, then you become hypersensitive to these natural plant toxins. And lectins is a main category. Gluten is a type of lectin, but it’s amazing to hear you talk about how we’re going off into the plant community, to places where people are like she had to stop eating broccoli and cauliflower. What the heck”s up with that? Kate (24m 54s): Yeah. And it was, so it was so bad, Brad, that I had to like curl up in a ball sometimes in the room and just like isolate myself because I was in so much pain that even sound hurt, you know, Brad (25m 10s): After a meal or was it just come and go randomly? Kate (25m 16s): Sometimes it was randomly. Sometimes I could pinpoint it. So this, that was, you know, that the eight years I was kid, it was like all trial and error trying to figure out what I could and what I couldn’t eat. It was, it was kind of crazy, you know, before even getting to keto. It was crazy. Cause I did, like I said, the Gersons and then I did the gaps. I did all of that and I was no matter what I ate, I was having a reaction to. So Brad (25m 40s): Do you think this is coming along just due to your age where you could get away with stuff in your twenties and no. Kate (25m 49s): No, it was always there. It was always there. I would like to say that it just, I think it, I think it became more prominent when I started paying attention to it. I think it was always that severe, but I just would ignore it. I was kind of, kind of like what you said, I accepted as the norm. That was gonna, I think we all do that too, but I, I, I think I just said like, Oh, this is how it’s going to be. So I’m just going to deal with it. Brad (26m 13s): Curling up once in a while, it’s okay. Get a good doze while you’re at it. Kate (26m 21s): So it kind of, it’s funny when I look back about it’s funny now, but not in the, in the moment because you know, the fact that I would think that that was normal. There’s definitely something going on up here. That’s the thing, right? Brad (26m 35s): Well, that’s why these podcasts are great. I mean, I’m referencing, this is only a year ago, Kate, that I, that I kind of put two and two I’m like, why am I drinking this thing that blows my stomach out every time and needing the, needing the, the comment from my wise friend to slap me in the face. And so boy, yeah, Kate (26m 54s): I think it’s always something we we’re always learning things where there’s always room for improvement, for everything that we do. And there’s always something that you can work on, Brad (27m 3s): Always something, including our common sense score. Like you idiot. Why are you doing this? If you don’t feel it, doesn’t make you feel good. Thank you very much. I’m really working on that myself. Kate (27m 15s): It’s, it’s so hard and it’s always hard to look in within, right? It’s always hard for us to, to kind of critique ourselves and say, what is actually wrong because we don’t like to admit that stuff it’s being vulnerable. Nobody likes that. Brad (27m 28s): Yeah. I mean, I’m blaming the social and cultural programming too, because if you’re convinced that this food is healthy and you sit down and eat it, chances are you’re going to, you’re going to enjoy it more and it might rip your stomach apart. But you know, there’s these things in play. When you look at a stock of broccoli and all the marketing and the messaging behind it, how could this possibly be something that’s contributing to, you know, blowing me up? And then conversely, if you are told that red meat is unhealthy and then you sit down and have to look at a hamburger, it’s gonna, it’s gonna affect your, your, your enjoyment of the food and like requiring reprogramming in my case. Brad (28m 10s): And I’m not gonna step on your toes about your carnivore journey, but that’s definitely an element of it is, is the challenge to your fixed and rigid beliefs and trying to maintain an open mind. Kate (28m 22s): So you believed that it wasn’t good for you. That’s funny. Cause I didn’t, I never got that message. Like it never sunk into me. I always felt like we needed it. That’s why I never Brad (28m 32s): It’s, you know, millions of people and you know, they say, well, you know, I eat chicken and fish, but not red meat. Oh, good for you. Like I’m three steps up the ladder from someone who’s eating red meat. And I had Dr. Cate, our, our we’re we’re big fans, Dr. Cate Shanahan on the show saying actually the fatty acid profile of chicken and pork is vastly inferior to red meat. So if you want to rank the meats, you know, red meat would be a healthier choice in that sense. Oh, mercy. Yeah, Kate (29m 5s): Absolutely. And I do eat in that, that way too. I love Cate Shanahan. She’s awesome. But yeah, I think, you know, your right. Society does do that task too. I never cause we always, we always had meat at our house and liver and stuff like that, but I was always the one that sat on the table until midnight because I wasn’t allowed to get up off the table until I eat it. I think, I think that’s probably a lot where that visceral reaction came from with me too. Like I don’t want to eat it because that kind of scenario was going on. But the texture was, was more for me why I didn’t eat it. So I never told my clients, you know, never eat meat. I never taught, even though I was vegetarian, keto just taught them how to do it all right. Kate (29m 45s): Because there is a right way to do vegetarian, but not everybody’s doing it. Right. I call them Carbentarians. They’re just eating carbs. They’re not doing your, and all your B12 and they’re not doing all the supplementation that they need to do to do it the right way. So, so don’t get me wrong there. I never told them not to eat me, but so yeah, it was quite the journey even with the keto cause trying to figure everything out, what was causing the issues in my stomach. So towards the end, what I was having was like, you know, those big boxes that you can get spinach. I would eat those. Eat that at one sitting, I would kind of, you know, saute it up with avocado oil and I put some olives on top of it and I’ve had like some artichokes and you know, I’d have, you know, whatever kind of, I couldn’t do any, any, any night shades or anything like that. Kate (30m 38s): So it was more like squashes and things that I would put on top of it, you know, like butternut squash and what have you, those kinds of things that were posted first and veggies. So that’s basically what I ate and that’s what I was eating right up until the end. Yeah. Brad (30m 53s): And the end is coming. Kate (30m 56s): So then I was actually, it was really funny. I had bumped into Sean Baker .Dr. Sean Baker. I think, I can’t remember where I bumped into him and he was talking about carnivore and I was like, no way, he hasn’t been just meat. There’s no way. And then I started digging into it. And then I bumped into Amber O’Hearn I started hearing her story and I was like, huh, okay. This is interesting. And then I heard the Peterson’s and I was like, wow, all right, something’s up here. And so I started doing a lot of research and I was like, you know, there is a handful of my clients that are doing what I’m doing. And you know, there is those clients that are not a hundred percent compliant and you know who they are. Kate (31m 38s): And, but these ones I knew were a hundred percent compliant with what we were working on and they still were not getting a hundred percent better. So I knew something was missing for them. And I was wondering if this was the missing link. So I started doing a lot of research on it, like eight months worth. And I was like, you know, I’m going to, I’m going to try it, have them try it. And so I did and they miraculously got better and it was almost instantaneously for some of them, which is different from, so Crohn’s where a couple of them, which you know, is very debilitating for them. They can’t leave the house. You know, a lot of that stuff revolves around their bathroom time. And so they were one lady came to me, she was crying. Kate (32m 20s): She goes, I don’t even dare to leave the house, but I don’t even nothing’s she’s did it for 20 years. So it was so odd for her just to get up and go instead of hanging out and waiting. So it was totally changed her life totally changed her life. I’ve had some people that have IBS. I put my daughter on it who had diverticulosis, but her on that totally changed her life. So it’s funny because people laugh that I put her on it first before I did it, because I knew she’d told me that she would have been too to explain, you know, everything that was going on. So I said, okay, well I normally don’t have my clients do things I haven’t done. So I guess I’m gonna have to do it. Brad (32m 59s): What was the protocol that you put your daughter on or your, your clients? Kate (33m 3s): Yeah. So each of them were different depending on how deep they wanted to go. My daughter was a hundred percent strict is what I put her on. My, my, two of the Crohn’s. One of them was strict. One of them totally went through. They were okay with that. And the other one, I just had them do carnivores-ish. So like avocados, they could still have two comers. They could still have some of the, like the butternut squash kind of things. If they didn’t have a reaction to it, I’d say, okay, he can do that. But we would slowly try things, not try a bunch of things. So they went strict carnivore for two weeks, nothing. And then we’d add in an avocado. Wait a whole week, see what would happen. Kate (33m 45s): Cause sometimes it takes a couple of days for it to show up, Brad (33m 47s): Right? So you’re adding the known to be least offensive plant foods. The ones that have the lowest levels of the anti-nutrients, the antigens that are known to cause problems and avocado would be on that list. I guess a lot of fruit because fruit is the final offering of the plan. It doesn’t have those lectins and toxins that the, the, the seed and the basic component of the plant has in higher levels. But as far as their menu, did you encourage them to check box on certain aspects of carnivore or was it freewheeling, you know, debate that they have to go find fish or whatever they can pick up? Kate (34m 27s): That’s a great question. So in that eight months of of research that I was doing, I started talking about nutrient density and I did put protein in order of nutrient density. So I always told them, you know, stick above the steak line. The steak and above is where we need to thrive in with food. And I can go through that with you in a second. And then the chicken, the pork and the turkey I’ll at the bottom. You can have that once a week, that’s it. You know, nothing more than that, not a whole lot of nutritional value in there. And, and not only that, they’re not being fed what they need to be eating. And so they’re being fed a lot of corn, even though it’s organic or grass fed or pasture raised, they’re still getting some soy and they’re still getting some corn as a supplement in their diet. Kate (35m 10s): And granted, it might be organic, but you’re still getting a lot of Omega sixes from those. And the mega six is what’s causing the inflammatory responses in the body. So I tell them, yeah, if you want chicken, you can have it, but just once a week, you know, and make sure that it is organic and it’s pasture raised. If you’re going to eat it. I try and encourage people to eat meat that they can afford. I’m a big believer. I don’t eat anything that is not farm raised, grass fed and organic. That’s just my, my way of coming to carnivore. That’s what I agree. That’s a path that I made with myself has to be a local farm, have to know that they’ve, they’re happy cows, you know, and they know I have to be able to see that they’re thriving before I even eat it to me that’s important. Kate (35m 53s): I try and encourage that in my clients. Brad (35m 55s): You see this show Portlandia? Kate (35m 57s): No, I haven’t, Brad (35m 59s): You know, it’s a popular series on cable and they were, you know, sitting at this super hip, you know, macrobiotic, you know, sustainable restaurant. And the waitress has given them a big speech about their, you know, where the chicken was raised and a happy pasture and had a great life. And they decided to get up and drive out there and see before ordering. And so this whole, you know, the whole show was, you know, a quick detour to the farm to, to meet the chicken’s family and make sure it was okay. And then they come, they go back to the restaurant and they’re like, okay, I’ll have the chicken. Kate (36m 37s): So funny. I have not heard that. I’ll have to check it out. That’s great. Yeah. I think to me that’s important. And even like with fish, it has to be, wild-caught not farm raised, you know, things like that. It’s, it’s very important for me as going the way that I’m eating now, but I try to encourage my clients to do that. And I give them the education behind it and then let them decide on their own if that’s what they want to do or not. So, so, yeah, so I had them eating like a variety of things. Like you said, you know, most of the, most of the things that we are, or that we have interactions with or reactions with are the seed, the, the, you know, the stems and sometimes the leaves. So anything that is at the end, that’s produced some kind of a fruit, like you said, is the lesser of the evil. Kate (37m 22s): So I always say, go with that. If they don’t have a reaction, Brad (37m 27s): The seeds, the stems and the leaves, did you make that up? Is that kind of a nice rule of thumb to go by? Kate (37m 33s): It’s a nice, I’ve, I’ve heard it through just by reading a lot of the stuff that is out there for the carnivore that they have released. And I think a lot of it, Dr. Paul Saladino actually references a lot of them, the studies in his book about that stuff too. So I think that that is, I mean, you think about it, that’s the most vulnerable part of the plant. So of course that’s where most of the toxins are going to be so that, you know, they’re about procreating, just like everybody else, they might be plants, but they’re still about keeping their species going. So they’re going to have things in there to protect them. And that’s where it’s going to mostly be, is, you know, in the, in the seeds. Cause that’s the smallest, the most vulnerable part. And then the roots, the stems and the leaves are next. Kate (38m 14s): And then after that, it’s the fruit and they want you to eat the fruit. That’s why it’s colorful. That’s why it’s pretty, that’s why it’s tasty because they’d rather you eat that and leave the rest of the plant so that it can continue on. So it just kind of makes sense in that aspect for me to say it that way. So anything that comes off the plant is what I would suggest to eat. Being a vegetarian keto ate like sprouts and seeds. Brad (38m 38s): Yeah. I want to say the opposite. Yeah. So just to help us reconcile here. This is an indisputable observation that you’re sharing. It’s not Kate’s idea that these plants have bad stuff in them. So, you know, this it’s acknowledged that they have these plant lectins and phytates and things that cause that, that are, that are literally poisonous. That’s why we can’t eat something until we soak, sprout, ferment, and render these things less harmful. But of course still there. So we have that as an established baseline. Now, I guess where the confusion or the dispute arises is that, you know, there’s some peripheral benefits in terms of the antioxidant response to consuming something that’s a poison. Brad (39m 27s): And so when you, when you eat a stock of broccoli and you get the sulforaphane, you can watch Rhonda Patrick on YouTube talk about it for an hour about the amazing scientific benefits and huge antioxidant boost that you get. But I guess on the, on the carnivore side and Dr. Saladino does a great job communicating this, that these, these things can, can really mess up certain sensitive people. And I assume you can probably contend that there’s people that aren’t bothered too much by the broccoli and they’re not curled up in a ball. And so we kind of have to pick and choose like you’ve done for your clients. Kate (40m 4s): Absolutely. And I think too, what’s interesting is, you know, like there are, there are two sides of the coin for a lot of this stuff. You know, we talk about all the benefits for the food. And it’s kind of like when you’re looking at supplements, there’s side effects, right? There’s, there’s things that have side effects. Well, these are what our supplements are coming from. So of course they’re still going to have side effects from them. So we have to take that into consideration too. But what I noticed, and I’m sure you’ve heard this from a lot of other people that are doing carnivore and I’ve talked about carnivore is when you have a weak immune system or you have something that’s bothering it and you’re adding these in it’s, your body’s more susceptible to having these symptoms and these, these sensitivities to them. Kate (40m 47s): So Crohn’s is, and so as IBS and anything, anything that that is not normal is considered to be auto-immune. Headaches are joint pain. You know, those kinds of things that we think is normal is not normal. So these are the ones that I am very, depending on how severe they have the auto-immune depends on how far we go is the best way to say that. Brad (41m 15s): So your daughter got going and did well. What happened? When did you pull the trigger? Kate (41m 22s): So I did two months after her. She started rapidly losing weight, which is not the key point for her. It was, she had a lot of it. She doesn’t mind me sharing this, but she struggled depression and anxiety since a teenager, she was a teenager. And, and then more recently it was being overweight. So she kind of is all connected again because of how she felt about herself. And it just kind of spiraled for her. And she gained a lot of weight and she wasn’t happy with herself. So when I had her, my first tried her doing Dr. Anna Cabeca is, you know, like the high green keto stuff. Oh my gosh. I wish I could repeat some of the stuff she said, but she was pizza, never did this to me is what she said to me. Kate (42m 5s): And I was like, okay, well, let’s put you on carnivore. She tried, carnivore is like a night and day for her. She felt better almost instantly. I think two months after being on it, I think it was two months. She came off all her medications and she’s been doing it for over a year and she’s lost over 85 pounds. She looks amazing. She’s not totally strict. She’s 30 years old. So she’s very social. She likes to have drinks now and then. So she’s not totally a hundred percent, but she does pay attention to what she is ingesting for alcohol. She tries and gets this stuff. That’s not made out of grains. You know, she’ll do that. It she’ll also be careful what she puts on her skin. She’ll, she’s careful about what she uses for cleaners in her house. Kate (42m 46s): So she’s being more aware of all of that stuff. So she’s, she’s still healing and she’s still enjoying it. She loves it. She thinks it’s the easiest thing for her. I would have to agree. It’s the easiest thing for me too. And it’s nice. Cause when they come over, I’ll have to do is feed them meat too. I don’t have to think about anything else because we’re all carnivores other than my husband’s not carnivore. But so yeah, it’s, it’s nice to see her as a mom, see her heal and see the things that she has accomplished just by doing that. Obviously it means a lot to see my clients do it too. And knowing that they’re healing as well, it’s just obviously a little deeper when it comes to your, your own kids. Kate (43m 27s): Right? So when I saw that happening, I was like, okay, now I have to do it. I have to do it because I’m having my clients do it. I was only gonna do it for 30 days. And then after doing it for the next very next day, I was surprised. I was like, wow, I don’t have any bloating. I don’t nothing. I felt so flat. And so light kind of Brad (43m 47s): One day, the one day just threw out some steaks and cooked them up. And when the sun went down and there you go, you’re on board. Kate (43m 58s): I love work. And I actually kept my avocados. I was nervous to get rid of my avocados because I’m an athlete. Right. And I was like, I know we need some kind of energy. And I know protein’s not an energy. So I did get the fatty cuts of meat, but I wasn’t sure it was going to be enough for the stuff that I would I was doing. So I kept my avocados for the first month is what I did. So I had two avocados a day versus five, like I used to have. So it was, it was great, you know, having that, that one comfort food, but I, I was afraid to let go. It didn’t give me any reaction. So I still kept it. So I did that for a month. And then after what I noticed in the month was my, my headaches were far few between, I was still having a lot of migraines. Kate (44m 44s): Those were far and few in between. And I noticed that my gums were no longer bleeding and my hair was no longer falling out. So those were like the biggest, which was huge. I mean, I thought I was pretty much healed when I went keto, but no, it, it was like, wow, those are the things that we’ve looked at as, Oh no, this is normal. This is, you know, you just talk it off and forget that you even have those issues. Brad (45m 8s): Pick a new hairstyle, I guess, just go with it, Kate (45m 12s): just go with it. And then the other thing that I noticed too, was more mental clarity. And when I went keto, I was like, wow, this is amazing. I didn’t think I could get more mental clarity. Brad (45m 25s): Right. She was already so wicked smart. You can listen to her podcast. It’s just killing it. And now she has more mental clarity, Kate (45m 32s): More energy. Believe it or not So it was it’s interesting. So I was like, you know what I’m thinking, I’m gonna just keep going. So that 30 days I was saying every 30 days, I just re-evaluated and here we are a hundred, 372 days later, I’m still doing it. Okay. Brad (45m 50s): So is this the current carni-cado? Kate’s carni-cado diet. You still got those coming in? Nope. Kate (45m 57s): I don’t. After the month I took them out. And so after that, that’s when I really started adhering to that nutrient density chart that I had made for my clients. So I put oysters up at the top raw oysters, and then obviously, you know, the steamed ones underneath it, if that’s what some people can’t do for our oysters and then it’s mollusks, anything that, you know, like clams and mussels and things like that are underneath that. And then underneath that would be sardines and your fatty fishes. Those would be, and I’m, I’m really cognizant and aware of all the metals that are in the, in the fishes that can cause it’s salmon, swordfish, and tuna, right. Kate (46m 36s): And those have really high metal. So I would rather have the sardines. They don’t carry as much metal as the larger fish do. So you need a lot of sardines. And I don’t get the ones that are oil. I do the water, the water ones, the water. Underneath that is your organ meats. Those are the next, the next in line. And then underneath that are your eggs, not your egg yolks, not your egg white, but the whole egg. A lot of people are like, Oh, there’s too much cholesterol in is, is too much. We need cholesterol people. We need it. That’s how our brain works. Brad (47m 10s): What about your prior reactivity to eggs? Is that a garnish now? Because your, your gut is healed. Kate (47m 16s): Yeah, it’s gone. It’s gone. And then, and then underneath that is your meat. So like elk, lamb, beef, bison, all of that is there. And then underneath that as your ground beef and then underneath that is your turkey, chicken and pork. So that’s the order that I Brad (47m 34s): So was sponsored by wild Turkey pastures, these wonderful birds that you can make for Thanksgiving. They’re the 13th best ranking on Kate’s. Oh my gosh. Kate (47m 44s): My list. Yeah. Brad (47m 47s): Well, that’s beautiful. Is this thing able to be downloaded off your website or something? Kate (47m 52s): I can actually, I can put it on there. I didn’t put it up there yet. We’re still kind of playing around with it to see. Cause I know a lot of people don’t, I’m not all about raw, but there are some things in there that you should have raw just to get more of a benefit of the nutrients. You know, like the oysters, if you can do like sushi, that’s great. You know, with the other shashimi, as they call it without the rice, you know, things Brad (48m 15s): I had to do my liver raw. Saladino slices them up for me one time and they actually tasted better than cooked because I’m not great at cooking it. And I can’t say that. I love it anyway. Even if it’s breaded and mixed with sun dried tomatoes, I’m trying to make it work, but you barely thought enough to slice it with a good knife and then salt the heck out of it. And it’s like little, little slices of, you know, tri tip or something tastes, tastes fine to want it. Kate (48m 47s): Yeah, I’ll have to. So you actually chew. I would be like this. I would just kind of like plug my nose and kind of swallow, Brad (48m 53s): Thin little slices and chew it. It doesn’t have that offensive back taste so that I find offensive when it’s gooey, you know, when you’re cooking it and you’re not supposed to cook it too much anyway. So I’m eating these medium rare slices of liver and choking it down. But sliced raw liver is a winner with tons of salt. Kate (49m 11s): Okay. I’ll have to try that because I that’s. One thing that I struggle with myself is getting in the, the organ meats. Which is why I love ancestral supplements, but I ended up using their stuff instead. Or I go to eat nose to tail.org or it’s no it’s nose to tail.org. And it’s aggressive fed grass finished farm in Texas. Brian Sanders owns it. And he, he has a patty mix and that patty mix is beef with heart liver, kidney, spleen, it mixed in as a burger. And I will eat it that way. I don’t have an issue with that. Brad (49m 48s): Yeah. I put the Cuisinart, turned the Cuisinart on and just drop the liver in there. It’s fantastic. Yeah. Kate (49m 53s): Awesome. And I think that’s, that’s my next step because it’s hard to get that patty mix now everybody’s ordering it. Cause I talk about all the time. It’s hard to, hard to get it now and I want to get a meat grinder to do that. So, so yeah. So I think there, there are definitely ways to have, I think organ meats are important. I do. I know some carnivores out there don’t they think it just steak and eggs is fine. And some people have thrived off in that for 10, 15 years. I feel like I need a little more. And so I try and incorporate the whole animal instead of just that I love bone. I like putting it on steak. I love putting it on burgers. You know, things like that. Bone marrow is really good. Bone broth, love, bone broth, you know? Kate (50m 34s): So Brad (50m 35s): Where’s that is that on the ranking chart somewhere? Kate (50m 38s): So that would still be with your organ meats and stuff. Cause you’re still eating bones. Right. So that would still be right up there with the organ meats. Brad (50m 44s): What about things like plain high-fat yogurt or anything else from the, from the cow is not part of your carnivores scene? Kate (50m 54s): It’s not part of mine, but I encourage people if they want to still do that stuff. I, I I’d like them to leave out the high sugary things. Cause if you have something like that, you still have cravings for other things and other things find your way back in. So, you know, if they want to have something like that, I would say like a goat or sheep milk kind of stuff. If you can, we have a lovely farm here that makes all kinds of raw cheeses out of these different types of milk that you could go and get, you know, I’m sure there’s stuff like that online that you can get to that are good. And I always say, make sure it’s organic because we don’t want the hormones. You know, we don’t want any of that stuff. That would be antibiotics. So I would say, make sure you get raw and make sure you get organic. Kate (51m 35s): And when you’re doing those kinds of dairy products, so I’m okay with that. If that’s what they want to do, but it’s not something I feel like us humans should be having because we’re not cows. We’re not, we’re not baby cows trying to grow up to be strong. That’s what that’s for. So, you know, and I can’t, I love cheese. I do, I love cheese. And if I were to have it, it would find its way back in. And I do find, I did find that over me doing carnivore that has happened. I’ll be like, Oh, I’ll just have a slice. And the next thing I know I’ve eaten it every day of the week. And so it finds its way back in pretty quickly. So I just would rather just stay away from it. So I go through these bouts, it comes in and then it goes away. Kate (52m 15s): It goes away for a while and it comes back in and it’s like, no, I shouldn’t be eating that. Brad (52m 20s): I guess that’s the same for my dark chocolate, which is part of my carnivore pattern. And I don’t know, I wonder where that ranks on the plant sensitivity scale. Do you know? Kate (52m 31s): Well, I tend to feel, cause it comes, it comes from a beam, right? If you’re eating the real good dark chocolate is coming from a bean, the first ingredient should be cacao bean. And I always tell people if they still want to eat chocolate, it should be bean first. And then you shouldn’t have any soy or anything in it. It should be, you know, like coconut milk. Cause that makes everything creamy too. Coconut milk will be the next ingredient. And then, you know, some healthy form of sugar, which for me, I feel like coconut sugar is really healthy for people because it’s a lower on the glycaemic. It doesn’t disrupt anything in the gut flora. So coconut sugar is the next best thing. So I, I always say if, if you want one or two slices or little chocolate pieces, that’s fine. Kate (53m 15s): It’s when you sit there and have a whole bar every day, that’s the issue. So we got, I know it’s pretty high on the lectins and the toxicity of plant. Cause it’s a seed is what they’re using to make it out. So if it, if it doesn’t cause an issue, then I say still have it. You know, you need to have some people need vices. Some people need something to look forward to if it’s that. Some people like coffee, the same thing, it’s a bean, right? It’s a, if they’re making it out of a bean and so I feel it’s still pretty highly toxic, but if you can have it, it doesn’t have an issue then okay. Then, then habit busting. Brad (53m 50s): It would probably neutralize some of, I mean, you’re not eating a raw coffee bean or a raw cacao bean. So maybe that’s maybe it’s been that, that processing method has helped with regard to that. But Kate (54m 2s): Yeah. And I would have to dig a little more on that to really answer that, honestly. So I, I really don’t know. But you would think that that would be the case? Absolutely. Brad (54m 11s): Yeah. But just, just narrowing things down, like you referenced with you and your clients and your daughter is kind of helpful in terms of, you know, willpower, decision fatigue, all these things that cause diets to fall apart. And now if you just put some parameters in place, it seems really easy to adhere to because they’re high satiety factor in the meals when you’re eating these incredibly nutrient dense foods. Kate (54m 36s): Absolutely. And I always tell people to like eat eight to 10 ounces of protein. And then if you’re still doing these vegetables, have, you know, like a half a cup, no more than a cup, keep it kinda low and then make sure you have some good fats, you know, and stay away from the seed oils, stay away from those oils. Those that we’re all saying are bad. Cause they are stay away from that stuff. So, you know, do the tallow, do the duck fat, do do the avocado oil, do the coconut oil. Do you know those are the, like the best fats that you can have and you can definitely cook. And those no problem, even high heat, no problem, but get the fattier cuts of meat and eat the fat. Don’t cut it off. Don’t throw it away, eat the fat. Kate (55m 18s): That’s where all the nutrients is. And I always tell them eight to 10 ounces. And then if you’re still hungry and you want seconds go for the protein, don’t go for more vegetables. Don’t go for more fat, have more protein because we feel we still eat less. We don’t eat enough protein still as a human species. Brad (55m 38s): Yeah. There’s been some plenty of jabbering about the dangers of consuming excess protein over the years, we put some of that stuff in our, in our recent books. And now as we’re tuning in further, it’s sort of being downplayed where it’s not such a big deal. You’re not going to get cancer. If you overstimulate Mtor and IGF one with, you know, too many burgers and this crazy carnivore diet. And it’s kind of interesting because these nuances are probably not of big relevance to the average person. Who’s just trying to make good choices and get rid of the crap out of their diet. But for us, you know, living and breathing this stuff and advising clients, it’s kind of interesting to think how, you know, little, little changes in the message are occurring, where yeah, by the way, you know, the high satiety factor protein is going to limit you anyway, from over-consuming it to the point of dangerousness, a freak bodybuilder person, who’s chugging down, you know, smoothies five times a day, like the golfer Bryson DeChambeau hilarious. Brad (56m 43s): He put on all this weight. Now he’s a big fat guy, and he’s touting his incredible diet where he has five protein drinks a day. And that’s why he’s winning tournaments. All right, man, whatever you say, but he’s a great golfer. I got to give him that. Okay. So we’re getting to the anniversary of Kate hitting the carnivore experiment and a year goes by you’re feeling great. You decide to celebrate. Kate (57m 7s): Yeah, I did. And so it was the beginning of the year, it was on a hike with a couple of women and we were hiking along and they were trying to recruit me to do some running. And I haven’t ran in a while. I do my Maffetone training. I love my Maffetone training. It has healed me in so many other ways too. And I was like, eh, that just doesn’t sound good to me. It was a hundred mile relay is what they were going to do. And I was like, yeah, now I don’t want to do that. That doesn’t sound fun. It’s on the road. If I’m going to run, I’d rather be on trail. And so one of the ladies spoke up and she goes, well, my husband’s going to do the Vermont 200 on the Vermont 100. I said, well, what’s that? And she goes, it’s a 200 mile bike ride on Vermont 100. Kate (57m 49s): It goes to North to South of Vermont. It starts with the Canadian border and at the, the Massachusetts border. And I was like, Oh, that’s interesting. So of course I come home, I immediately look it up. And Brad (58m 1s): The highway number or something. Yes. Okay. So you’re doing 200 miles on highway 100. Kate (58m 7s): Yes. And, and so it was, so I was like, Oh, I’m so intrigued with this. And being a newbie to cycling on the road, I had done a couple of rides that year prior. It’s nothing big. It was just really fun. You know, just I, where I live here in New Hampshire, it’s really hilly and I just loved challenges. And so I was like, Oh, when I was looking at that route, I didn’t know how to read the route notes very well, apparently. And I thought it was only going to get 9,000 feet in elevation now, which sounded huge to me. And I was like, yeah, 200, 200 plus miles and you know, 9,000 feet in elevation, sign me up. I want to do this. And so I checked the date. Kate (58m 48s): It was in June and I said, Oh, and I started reading the rules and they want you off the road before the sun sets. And I was like, there’s no way I have that pace with these guys on that kind of, you know, that early on into my career of cycling. So I said to myself, I’m just going to split it up into two days. I’m going to do it on a different day. I’m going to invite some friends to do it with me, that I know that would love to do that. So I did. And I started training for it. And into the started training week, COVID happened. So two of them lived in Florida. They bowed out, they decided not to do it. And then the one that lived here, she’s like, I’d never even done a century before. And she goes, I don’t know if I want to do that. Kate (59m 29s): And I was like, I’ve never done a century, but I’m training to get there. We have plenty of time to train. And she’s like, yeah, I know. I don’t think I want to do that. So I was like, okay, I guess I’m gonna do it by myself. I didn’t look for anybody else. I’d ask it about it. Brad (59m 40s): Always how it happens. People when you’re throwing down a big challenge, you go out to the, the, the restaurant to talk it over. Everybody’s hands are red. And then when the, when it comes time, man, people drift away. Kate (59m 56s): They did, they bailed. But I, you know what though? I think it was great. It was perfect how it happens. Because as if we talk a little bit about the ride, I was, I don’t think I’d have any friends after the first day if they came with me. So I think it worked out perfect. So the day came, I was, I was ready. I talked to Phil. Maffetone a couple of times in it because I was worried and not, not knowing what to expect with my body, not having any carbs, doing this kind of thing and talked about my training, what I’d done. And he goes, Oh my gosh, you’ve got this. You have no issue. And I was like, okay, well, good. So I went in with that attitude. Kate (1h 0m 36s): Okay. I have no problem. The only thing that I knew I would have a problem with is the mental stuff. Cause the hills, I can only train so much around here with the Hills. Those Hills are bigger than what we have here. So, so the first day it was great. My daughter drove me up. I got to spend some time with her. She was my Sherpa. She, she spent the night with me in the bed and breakfast and she dropped my stuff off at the next location that I was going to stop at. So I spoke to the ride director a couple of weeks prior and he said, he goes, he goes, I think it’s great you’re stopping in Killington. He goes, that’s awesome. He goes, because the rest of the ride from there is brutal is what he said to me. And he has been putting this ride on since 1985. This ride has been going on. Kate (1h 1m 17s): And he’s the one that put it on. So I was like, if anybody knows, this is the guy that knows. So I thought that was great. So I, I left the North Troy, Vermont got onto 100 and road. I reached 50 miles and I started at 5:30. I reached 50 miles at like, it was before nine o’clock in the morning. And I called my husband and I told him where I was. He goes, geez, you should have done the whole thing today. He goes, you’re quick. I’m going to finish the whole thing. Well, those were words that kind of came back and bit me in the butt because the minute I left that break, it was, I started laughing. I was at this coffee shop, filling up with water and this guy came out and he’s like, he was a cyclist, you know? Kate (1h 2m 0s): So where are you coming? Where you’re going? And so I told him, he goes, Oh, you want to miss, when you go around this corner, you want to take the left detour. And he goes, you’re gonna go down through town. You’re gonna skip and miss some, some construction. He says like three miles construction. And I was like, okay, well he’s a cyclist. And he’s, over-exaggerating because as we usually do, right? So I’m going, I get up to the sign. It’s eight miles of construction. It was all dirt road. They had milled it down to dirt. And so I wrote eight miles on my road bike. By the end of that eight miles, my hands were numb, my arms or my feet, my butt, everything was numb. Kate (1h 2m 43s): It was crazy. And that was just the beginning. So after that, it was hill after hill after hill. And it was beautiful. So it kind of took away from the pain just, and it was 80 degrees. The humidity was crazy. The, it always had a headwind. And I was like, looking in the trees. I was like, where’s this wind coming from? You know, being a new cyclist. I really didn’t understand this headwind bang. And I kept looking in the trees. I was like, where’s this wind coming from? Am I going that fast? What’s going on here? So I really found out what headwind was that day. So I get into town, this one town and I had hit over a hundred miles. Kate (1h 3m 23s): It was like 106 miles. I punched in my Airbnb where I was going, the next stop and it said I had 28 more miles to go. I lost it. I was like, this is two o’clock in the afternoon. And I haven’t been on the road since 5:30 and it’s hot. There’s no shade. And that’s when I had the mental breakdown. I was like, okay, you know, you’ve got to put your stuff yourself together. You got to get to where you’re going to spend the night and just get there, put your head down and go. So I did. And the climb to Killington was horrendous. That was, I actually thought about calling. Cause I knew my husband was at the Airbnb. I was going to call him and said, can you come pick me up? And then you can just bring me here in the morning. Kate (1h 4m 5s): And then I was like, I don’t want to start on a hill. Yeah. I figured I could still do that. But I was like, I don’t want to start on a hill. It was such, I mean, every corner I went around, there was another hill. So I get there finally. And it was a sweet six mile downhill, you know, it was just awesome. After I’d got up to Killington, it was six miles downhill to the Airbnb. So it was a beautiful ride down. And I get there and I felt amazing, Brad, I did this all on just meat. I haven’t had any carbs. And so I ate in the morning before I left and I hadn’t eaten at all during the day, I would just wasn’t hungry. Brad (1h 4m 43s): And so in the morning Kate (1h 4m 46s): I had, I had eggs and steak and I had some crab meat. So I had all three and I choked it down cause I wasn’t even hungry. So I forced myself to eat it. So, and I don’t like doing that cause I always, I’m a, I’ve always eaten when I’m hungry. I’m an intuitive eater. When my belly grumbles, I eat and I knew what I was up against that day. So it was like, I got to get some fuel in me, so I’ve got to eat something. And so I forced myself to eat that. When I got back to the hotel though, I still wasn’t hungry. When I got there, I got there about 4:30, took a shower and my husband and I went into Killington, went into town and looked around and tried to find things and ended up going back to the hotel and cooking for us. Kate (1h 5m 32s): And cause I brought my stove and my camp stove and all that stuff. So I cooked for us and I went to bed at eight o’clock and woke up at five the next morning. And I was like, wow, I feel great. I felt like I could do exactly everything all over again. And I even said to myself, I was like, you’re going to prepare yourself to ride another 130 miles in case that happens again, like the end of, but when I was done at the end of the day, it was 130 or yeah, it was 130, some odd miles. The first day is what I did. And I had over 7,000 feet in elevation. I was like, this guy said we only getting 9,000 feet elevation. And he told me the next day was worse than the first. Kate (1h 6m 14s): So I was like, there’s no way, you know, I’m going to get just 3000 feet elevation. It’s not going to happen. So I had to mentally psych myself up for this. Cause if I haven’t ready for it and prepare for it, I won’t have a meltdown like I did the day before. And so sure enough, I was like, okay, I’m going to prepare myself to do another 30 miles. And I’m going to prepare myself to do, you know, over 7,000 feet in elevation. And it happened to be that it happened to be another seventh, over 7,000 feet elevation. The next day I also had a five to 10 mile per hour wind that was with headed, you know, hitting me. It was wicked windy that day, which was also nice because it was so sunny and there was no shade. Kate (1h 6m 55s): So the wind felt great actually. So I really welcomed to the wind. Didn’t do well for my average time though. I think I averaged like 14 miles per hour, both days. It’s kind of frustrating cause I’m usually faster than that, but it was great. I, you know, it was such an awesome experience. You know, the views were beautiful. I hit all the ski areas, you know, the fact that I could do it without having any carbs and without having any sugar was huge for me. I knew that I could do it physically. I did know I could do it physically. It was just without carbs. Could I do it physically? Because we’ve been told all of our lives as athletes that we need to carb load. We need to have that big bowl of spaghetti the night before we need to have, you know, the garlic bread with the spaghetti or, you know, eat pop tarts in the morning, something along those lines. Kate (1h 7m 44s): And I didn’t have to do any of that stuff. Brad (1h 7m 46s): Yeah. So the second day, what did you eat on the bike? And you did another, what? 70 miles to get to 270. Kate (1h 7m 54s): I did actually. It was the next day was just over. No, it was, it was longer than a 200 mile ride. It was like 226 or something like that Brad (1h 8m 5s): A hundred the next day? Yeah. Kate (1h 8m 7s): Yeah. And again, I read the, write the notes wrong. So David asked me to let him know when I was at a certain time. So he could me at the end. At the end, there was a three mile hike up. And that’s where I was going to get a thousand feet in elevation in three miles. And he was going to just kind of hop me with the Jeep, you know, just to keep, cause it was at the end of the ride. He wanted me to still be in good spirits. And so he was going to meet me at this reads burrow in and then I could continue on for three miles to the, to the border. So I thought it was three miles from the border of Massachusetts. And so I get to read Readsboro. I don’t have any cell service. My phone’s about to die and he’s not there. So I was like, I’m just going to go on for the three miles because I want to get it on my Strava. Kate (1h 8m 51s): I don’t want to lose it. I’m just going to go for three miles and then I’ll come back down and meet him. So I’m pedaling up this hill and I hear the tires of my Jeep. I was like, okay, he’s coming. So I turn around and he’s there and he’s like, all right, I’ve got some ice water for you. He’s like, let’s plug in your phone, pull over for a little bit. So we plugged in the phone just to give it some more juice, drank, Brad (1h 9m 13s): Sign it, Massachusetts, come on, we need that phone. Kate (1h 9m 15s): I’ll give you the sign. It was awesome. So here I am, I’m going and he’s hopping me. You know, it’s great. Cause I don’t know where he’s going to be. This is like the hardest and the fastest I’ve peddled, the whole ride. Cause he’s there, you know? And I’m like, I know he’s waiting for me. Let’s just keep going. So next thing I know. I don’t see him. Yes. I haven’t seen him for a while. I was like, okay. I feel like I’ve gone three miles. I know I’ve gone more than three miles and I’m peddling and I’m peddling. I was like, where’s the damn sign. Where’s the sign. And I’m just like going and going. And then all of a sudden I see him coming from the other direction. I look at him, I was like, where’s the damn sign. He’s like five more miles. And I had already gone five miles and I was like, Oh, he goes, it’s all downhill. Kate (1h 9m 56s): It’s all downhill. I was like, okay. So I’m going. And there was a little bit of a hill. He like parked at the bottom of it. He was like, this is the only hill I swear. So went up the Hill, got to the side. It was, it was so fun. I mean, it was fun having him there, but it was so rewarding with the time I got to that sign and knowing what I’ve done, you know, the mileage that I did that day, the elevation I did that day with the headwind in the wind blowing, it was just to me, it was an amazing feat that I had accomplished. And I, it was more mentally for me, you know, that’s what I really wanted to accomplish was that. But I also want to everybody to know we don’t eat carbs. Kate (1h 10m 37s): I, I don’t think we need them at all. Yeah. Brad (1h 10m 40s): You need to be adapted to try something crazy like that, but it’s just, it’s a miracle really. And I, I was talking to you offline and bragging about, you know, I’ve, I’ve gone 200 miles a couple of times back in when we did these crazy rides, but we slammed down so much sugar. It would embarrass the, the carnivore you know, vendor of the cotton candy because you know, that was what our bodies were fueled on. But to do this, I mean, did you, did you have a, an energy gel in your back pocket in case of emergency? Are you just going for it? Kate (1h 11m 12s): Just going for it. Brad (1h 11m 13s): It, [inaudible] style. My goodness. Kate (1h 11m 17s): I did a hundred miles here at home. I did a hundred miles here at home and it was Brad (1h 11m 24s): Right. Kate (1h 11m 26s): You’ve got like 5,000 feet in elevation. And at that time I used to carry, I carried those they’re maple candies that are made with just maple syrup and they’re made into hard candies. I had a couple of those with me just in case when I did that twice. I knew that I didn’t need them after that. So I just, I, and I knew there were stops along the way if I needed to stop somewhere to get something like that. But I, I, I totally, I knew my body could do it. And I think it helps, you know, Phil told me, he’s like, Oh, you got this. There’s no problem. I think that helped me a lot. It was just the mental challenge of the hills was what, cause I I’m new to cycling and I didn’t know like what I was supposed to expect out there either. Kate (1h 12m 8s): I, you know, the headwind was crazy. I’ve never, never experienced that before. And you know, it was amazing. No, Brad, I have to tell you, I did my first skipped over this. They were people hooting and hollering say, you’ve got this. I mean like, obviously this is a well-known ride. A lot of people do it. They were hanging out the window, cheering me on saying, you’re doing awesome. You’ve got this. You’re almost to the top. I mean, all that, they were just constantly, I’ve never experienced it like that. It was like I was out on a race is what I felt like. It was great. Brad (1h 12m 40s): Wow. Love it, Kate, what a great way to celebrate your, your carnivore journey and thanks for those details. Especially the ranking chart. I think you got to blow that into a PDF and we’ll, we’ll be rocking and rolling. It could be a sensation except for the chicken and pork. They’ll probably send a letter a, you know, from their, from their legal counsel, like how dare you rank us at the bottom of the barrel mercy. So tell us how we can find your podcast and your, your nutrition coaching service. Kate (1h 13m 11s): Oh, thank you, Brad. Yeah. So all the handles on social media, as well as my podcast and my website is Brad (1h 13m 18s): 200 mile carnivores.com. Kate (1h 13m 22s): It’s K84 wellness. That’s the letter K the number eight, the number four wellness is how you can find me on all social media and my website and the podcast as well too. Brad (1h 13m 33s): You could, you could fit that on a license plate. It’s so tight with all the abbreviations or texted to people. I love it. Kate (1h 13m 40s): I never thought of the license plate. I should do that. I’ll start putting it on my cycling journey too. Brad (1h 13m 47s): K84, two space, 200 boom, two 20 or whatever the final number was. And then people say, what does that license plate mean? You go, well, I just rode from Canada to frickin Massachusetts. Oh, what kind of food did you eat? Nothing. Come on now tell the truth. All right. Kate Cretsinger , what a great show and a great, great achievement. Thanks. You know, healing those people and your, your daughter’s story is wonderful. And I think people have a lot to think about for this one. Kate (1h 14m 19s): So thank you for having me. Thank you for letting me share. It was such a great journey. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Brad (1h 14m 29s): Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback at firstname.lastname@example.org. And we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts, I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars. And it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves because they need to thanks for doing it.