Bee The Wellness founders Vanessa and Adam Lambert are here to talk about all things related to health and wellness today, with a focus on relationships. This power couple truly knows their stuff, as Bee The Wellness is a health and wellness consulting company that specializes primarily in retreats held around the world. People experience full-on lifestyle transformations during these programs and Vanessa and Adam’s warm energy and enthusiastic personalities bring a really special sense of camaraderie to the whole experience.
Vanessa and Adam also host a “Bee The Wellness” podcast that allows them to further connect with their audience and also bring in some fun guests. You’re probably thinking now that that’s a lot of time for two people to spend together – collaborating daily for their company and their retreats, weekly for their podcast, and also just being in a committed partnership! Vanessa shares that, “One of the biggest things for us as we’ve grown in our relationship is actually to have permission to argue…to actually make space for that.” This was quite a discovery for Vanessa, as she grew up hearing her mother, who was divorced, press upon the importance of never arguing with your partner. However, Vanessa realized that if you’re always living in fear of not “getting along” with your spouse, that will do you both a great disservice. And as their relationship grew with time, she realized that she and Adam were able to communicate in a much healthier manner when they were getting stuff off their chests and expressing what was on their mind to each other. “You can’t just shove it away in a corner. It’s actually been awesome for us to learn how to fight!” Vanessa comments, laughing. Adam quickly clarifies that their fights are not “screaming and yelling sessions” but rather a way for them to simply have a rational conversation about information that just has to be let out into the open. And as they both explain, not taking things personally makes a huge difference, which is why they’re both so committed to letting the small stuff go. They understand that the other person might say something without thinking, or be running on little sleep, and something insensitive or unnecessary slips out…it happens, we’re all human. And not being nit-picky or overly sensitive to those very real, human moments, to simple mistakes, makes a huge difference in the dynamic of their relationship. Vanessa notes that often, a lot of people will “latch onto” one bad moment in their relationship and “become a victim of that moment,” but that kind of behavior will never help you move forward. Clearly, getting over yourself goes a long way, especially when you find yourself in a petty argument with your spouse and can’t even remember how you got there! Vanessa reminds us that no one will be perfect “every second of the day” and to just remember this when you find yourself in a challenging moment. “80/20 it!” Adam suggests. Yes, you can totally apply the 80/20 healthy eating rule to your behavior within your relationship – strive for your best most of the time, but don’t beat yourself up when a small mistake slips in. Recognize what happened, acknowledge the mistake and the part you played, learn from it, and move on. Next!
More than anything, taking personal responsibility for the way you are in all areas of life is one of the major lessons people learn to integrate from Adam and Vanessa. They compare its importance to managing money to illustrate how much care people will pour into one area of their lives if they think it’s important. Well, if you don’t put the same kind of thought and responsibility into managing your emotions, then how can you be surprised when you realize you have no control over them? One big question Adam pushes people to ask themself is: “Where do I suffer more if I’m not the person I need to be?” Almost always, the answer to this question is work, as that’s where your income and reputation come from, not to mention how often it involves your ego.
One of the best takeaways from this show is how deeply beneficial it is to work on your relationship because working on your relationships forces you to work deeply on yourself. This is because the simple act of being in a committed partnership will make anyone expand internally in a way that they wouldn’t have been prompted to, had that other person not been there for you to react to. As Vanessa notes, working through issues in a relationship is often the catalyst for you to say, “Wait, why do I react like that?” which allows you to really go deep and examine why you react to things in a specific way. Discovering where certain deep-rooted behavior comes from – “sifting through your files together” as Vanessa has coined it – is the “magic” that keeps them together – through doing the deep work. Adam and Vanessa have been together a long time (since they were “kids,” Adam notes) and fortunately, they’ve been able to grow together, and not grow away from each other.
A huge part of that growth is thanks to their Bee The Wellness coaching program. One of the reasons why their retreats are so life changing is because Vanessa and Adam are constantly taking it to the next level and asking themselves the right (and sometimes hard) questions in order to deepen their emotional intelligence. One thing they point out is how everyone is always so focused on being healthy, but for what? “You’re not going to get a blue ribbon for being healthy….The real prize is in how you use it,” Vanessa says. She makes a great point – if simply being healthy, fit, and capable is the prize, then what do you really want to use it for? These retreats are often centered around physically challenging exercises, like hiking Machu Picchu and white water rafting in Costa Rica, but as Vanessa and Adam explain, the physical fitness aspect is merely a conduit that leads people to develop a deeper and clearer understanding of what they’d like to devote their time to, and how to best utilize their strengths, both physical and mental. And more than anything, the camaraderie that develops between the other retreat members is truly invaluable: “It makes these once in a lifetime experiences even more special because you’re sharing them with people who are your friends, but who feel like family.”
That’s all for today, but stay tuned for an upcoming show where we’ll discuss plant medicine and the role ayahuasca plays in their life-changing retreats.
Adam and Vanessa balance the yin and the yang on their podcasts. [06:32]
Their solid marriage is based on the ability to converse in an adult manner and not take things personally. [12:02]
Adam points out the difficult adjustment people in powerful jobs have to go through when they get home. [17:27]
Surveys show a surprising difference in what women and men really want from a partner. [23:37]
You have to take creativity and understand how to create structure around your life. [30:25]
How does it work with Vanessa and Adam to spend every waking hour together? [36:15]
When the couple spends a great deal of time apart, there tends to be a lack of intimacy. [41:24]
If your partner doesn’t want to hear about your day, you will withdraw from them. [44:39]
Vanessa and Adam began in the primal paleo scene many years ago in Chico, CA. [47:13]
The community aspect of their training fosters their wellness program. [50:56]
It’s much easier to eat primally when you are out of the States. [55:58]
The battle to be healthy here in the U.S. is not a joke. There is constant infiltration of crap. [58:37]
You have to take a lot of personal responsibility to try psychedelics. One needs to be very cautious. [01:00:29]
“There has to be structure and commitment around the way you do your day.”
“Create your life in a way so you have things you’re committed to, that you follow through with.”
“It’s much easier to eat primally when you are out of the States.”
LISTEN:Download Episode MP3
Get Over Yourself Podcast
Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author and athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high-stress, modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balance that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.
Hey, I get to talk to a super duper power couple of the universe. Vanessa and Adam Lambert. They operate a health and wellness consulting company called Bee The Wellness, BEE The Wellness, specializing in retreats, adventurous destination retreats where they go for big time lifestyle transformation with this total immersion experience. The camaraderie part and the free spirited part is the centerpiece. Vanessa is a real free spirit. She has an alternate ego by the name of Nesta Ray, where she’s a singer, songwriter, performer, a. These guys are a lot of fun and we were going to talk about the retreats and their career and the health and fitness space, but we ended up on this show getting into relationship dynamics because these guys are fascinating. They live together, work together, travel together, their lives are interwoven and completely on the same parallel track.
Adam used to be a firefighter when he was gone for long stretches of time during the relationship and now they’ve gone into chapter two where they’re side by side or actually face to face at their dueling standup desks where they spend a lot of their day planning the retreats and running the business coaching people. And so we just get into a lot of that about what it’s like to have sort of a long distance relationship where you’re lonely and a lot of times and now when you’re in each other’s face all the times. And I love their perspective and their insights. So we get into that with a lot of content here. And then we’re going to have a second show with them where we focus on am the plant medicine world and specifically the all inclusive AyahuascaRetreats that they host an organized, and this is new territory to me, so that’s going to be show number two. But here let’s hear from a couple who’s really making it work, change in other people’s lives and live in the dream with their priorities in the right place.
Adam and Vanessa Lambert of Bee The Wellness.com Adam and Vanessa here in this fabulous white standup studio in beautiful Venice beach, California.
I got you warmed up. I want you to get right into that again cause I was asking you about the fabulous be the wellness podcast and what’s your, what’s your vision for how it’s clarified recent times? Tell us about that.
Yeah, well I think when we first started it we, it was mostly Adam and I just supporting our programs and supporting the offerings that we had out there, giving coaching advice and connecting with our audience. And then we got really inspired to bring in guests that we were interested in that we thought would bring interesting conversation or you know, just further exploration to the podcast. And then I was saying that I started to get a little lazy and then I started letting people sort of pitch me on their ideas and started, you know, Oh okay, that might be cool that that might be a cool interview. And what I realized is that it really makes a difference that I, that we select the people we want to have on the podcast that the listeners can feel the difference between us being pitched and having someone on as opposed to us selecting someone and inviting them on.
Yeah, yeah, 100% and it’s like there is, there is a percentage obviously that people that pitch and we’re like, well this sounds super cool. I’ve never heard of this person. So it’s like it’s awesome that that happens. But there’s definitely a difference in like the overall vibe of what goes down in the podcast. And I think how it lands for the people listening. If it’s like somebody that’s on a book tour that’s just looking for podcasts to get on and they come on ours and even if it’s super interesting, there’s just something about that dynamic that’s like less authentic.
You guys are those universe energy people I first met. Yeah. The people were gravitating towards your strength training sessions at the Primalcon retreat. It was just magic over there. You hear the giggling and the laughing someones in some other groups on boring presentations, 30 meters away at the beach. What are those guys doing over there? What do they do with that PVC pipe? How did, how did dead lift proper properly using a PVC pipe? That’s no joke. I mean yeah. Yeah and um, I think that was awakening for me cause I tweaked my back a few times and I had to get deep into that form and that perfect mechanics with a lower weight of course. And watching Layla over and over, we filmed her doing it, doing a video. It’s on YouTube and I just like kept repeating it in slow motion and Brian McAndrew and someone who knows what they’re doing. But now I’ve got the hex bar, which I think is made it a lot more protective and yeah. So go order one. This show is sponsored by hex bar unlimited bar.com. Yeah. Have you read the uh, like the, the, the data suggesting that um, the male female host dynamic is like super interesting. Like people like that better?
No, but you were telling me this.
Yeah. Yeah. Bill Simmons grabbed like a female, you know, Bill Simmons, the sports guys got all the sports stuff and he talks about TV shows and the Boston Celtics and like from a very male bent of, you know, uh, crazy commentary going off track and all that. And now like this female’s on there all the time. They probably probably read the same thing, like just works on a certain level.
You know, everyone naturally likes going back to the energy. They like thinking in the yang. They like the masculine and the feminine. I think that all of us, no matter who we are as listeners, we, there’s something in each side of it that you can relate to. And that pulls out a different perspective for you. So I think that we just, you know, luckily happened to do it and happened to just be a male and a female who decided to do a podcast. And luckily that’s correct.
Yeah. Yeah. Well it’s, it’s interesting to think about though, but I mean that is a lot of the feedback that we get. Like for a lot of our longtime listeners are like, we just like listening to you guys banter back and forth about stuff, you know, which is, which is cool. I mean, hopefully it’s actually imparting some level of, I don’t know, information or something, but Hey man, I’ll take it if you just want to listen to us, you know, dynamics.
You listen to Casey Neistat’s podcast with his wife? No, the YouTube sensation. So he’s a very prominent YouTube personality and his wife’s an anonymous, you know, she’s been in a few of his videos and so now they have their own podcasts, Couples Therapy. It’s called. And those guys go at it, man. I mean, it’s like unplugged all the way. They’re like arguing and like, you know, I should, because I didn’t want to do this podcast because you’re being such an asshole this week and it’s entertaining. And it’s also, um, they’re, they’re, you know, his whole thing is the daily villa started that and you know, he, he just exposes his life to the camera and it’s, you know, it’s the difference between the manufactured media that we grew up with and had until just a few years ago. And now it’s like, you know, it’s extremely enlightening to hear a real couple talk it out without the sugarcoating. Oh, totally. Not that you guys need to get into that relationship dynamic stuff, but you know, just therapy to come through. Yeah, it comes through. [inaudible]
well, it’s been, actually, it’s been, one of the biggest things for Adam as we’ve grown in our relationship is actually to have permission to argue, to just have permission to make space for that.
Are you saying on, on, on the, on the, on the mic or in general? Just in general. Nice. Here we go. Here we go. Listeners. Ready?
I grew up with, um, so my mom was divorced and part of the dogma of, of her mindset was that you shouldn’t fight as a couple. So I heard a lot of this like, well, if you don’t get along then maybe you shouldn’t be in the relationship. There was all this stuff. And as we got older and our relationship got older, I was like, dude, you have to fight. You have to get this stuff out. You can’t just shove it away in a corner. So it’s been awesome for us to learn how to fight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s not like screaming and yelling and carrying on, but it’s like, it’s just that it takes like, I think at the end of the day, if it’s, if you have the Ram or like the energy to, to be able to have a, you know, rational and like adult tone conversation about things, that’s probably better, you know? But like, if you don’t have it, like in the moment, you just still gotta get the information out like [inaudible] or the other, you know. So even if you can’t quite control your, your shits, so to speak, it’s like, it’s, I don’t know, we’ve found anyway for us that it’s just better to get it out there and get it over with.
Yeah. And not take it so personally in the heat of the moment, you know, it’s like, okay, maybe someone says something in a tone or in a way in the heat of the moment that if they were feeling more rational and maybe had more energy or more sleep or whatever, they wouldn’t have said it that way. But we don’t latch onto it like, and become a victim around this moment. It’s like, okay, well that was a moment. How many other moments are we rational? Are we loving? Are we able to sit down and work through it? So it’s like you just kind of have to leave some space for it though, because you’re not going to be perfect. And every month,
yeah, 80 20th yeah. Well, I mean,
that’s my followup going on in my head. It’s like, Hey, 80 20th that’s cool. And if it’s 2080 yeah. Honestly, when that’s a moment and there’s another moment and there’s another moment and I’m sorry I called you an effing bitch. I really didn’t mean it sweetie, come here, let’s have some makeup, sex. You know that kind of stuff is like we have, we have to have that openness to free an exchange of dialogue and emotions, but also some kind of parameters where this is how we operate.
Agree. Totally. That’s a really good point because actually people could hear that and think, Oh well if they do it, maybe it’s not that big of a deal. Yeah,
there go Vanessa going off again [inaudible] in the kitchen,
but it is because I think the majority of the time is really thoughtful and really calm and and communicative and we do a lot of work on ourselves and we do a lot of work on our relationship and so I think for when it is that 20% and I doubt it’s even 20% it’s probably more like five or 10% it’s like we just don’t take it personally. We don’t latch onto it as some big defining thing in our relationship because so much of it is the opposite.
Yeah. You have that healthy foundation, which counts for so much. John Gottman relationship expert, one of the best guys out there for a long time, and he says, hell, a healthy longterm successful couples have a 20 to one ratio of positive to negative comments in ordinary life and a five to one ratio during an argument.
Wow, that’s amazing.
I’m going to have start and I’ll start keeping track.
I mean, you can envision a exchange. Where’s the contentious issues being being saying,
I totally want to support your, your dream to go sky diving and you’ve worked so hard and you’re a great provider and you’re so good at saving money and I see that you have the money to go pay for it. Um, and I know you’re safe and you’re fit and you’re all this and I don’t want you to fucking skydive. So there’s five or seven, then we dropped the one in there. It makes for a better discussion then over my, yeah, over my dead parachute. Yeah.
Yeah. Here’s the 10 reasons you suck and I’m going to throw parachuting right in there with it.
Well, I think that, you know, it just takes a certain level of emotional intelligence and emotional intelligence as related to general intelligence. Like how you are about life, how you notice the way that you react to life that you interact with life. And I think that that’s something that, you know, you just have to take personal responsibility at some point with the way you are about things and your relationship is no different. And so, you know, if you are only great at work and you only have, you know, you’re intelligent within the your career path, but nowhere else at some point you have to just expand out that learning scale, escape and start to create some new tools and, and the other parts of your life.
Yeah. Freaking hope. So. But there’s so many peak performers that just nail it in one area of life, but they don’t have the Ram as Adam says. Yeah. Perhaps as an as a a excuse, they’re, they’re so focused on their important super-duper career, they don’t have time for, um, partner family. But it seems like if you have all those things in place, you should be able to just turn that dial over into, into another realm.
Yeah. Well, I mean I think the, the funny thing about it is if you don’t take the time for it, you’re only going to make it more complex because if you don’t make the time for your family, you’re only gonna create more animosity, more negativity, more distance, all these things that are going to be bigger to overcome later on in life. And so it’s almost like, it’s crazy to think you don’t have the Ram because it’s going to require the least amount now on the front end compared to the backend. And I think that’s just what, that’s where the intelligence comes in, right? That’s where like just looking at it intelligently to say, Oh, okay, how can I be wise about this? It’s just like an investment strategy with your money. It’s the same with your energy. Like if I don’t do this right now, it’s only going to be harder later.
Faster. Yeah. Same with speaking up. Like you talk about the start of this, you can’t have that happening.
Yeah, yeah. That’s an interesting one because, so in my previous life, you know, there were, there were times where to, to perform at that level of a firefighting. Yeah, exactly. And to perform at that level, like there’s, you’re certainly not encouraged to, to go about things diplomatically. You know, it’s not, it’s not a democracy whatsoever. You know, it’s like who’s in charge is who and who’s in charge. And hopefully they take some level of input from the people around them, like the good ones do. But there’s like a, so I’m imagining a person who’s crushing it in that world, you know, and they’re, every decision that they make is their decision to make. And everybody just falls in line with what it is. And they get a lot of positive feedback for it because fundamentally they’re nailing that aspect of their life to be able to flip the switch and come into their family dynamic and not have that level of sort of autonomy to operate and the way that they work can be really challenging. You know what I mean?
There’s a reason that the divorce rate in the fire services, well over 50 probably into the 75% range. And this is for multiple divorces. You know, it’s like I worked with so many guys who were on their third there, maybe sometimes their fourth, which at some point you’re like, dude, how about why do you keep doing this? And what part of this is like just have a girlfriend, you know, just just call it, you know, but it’s a, it’s a real thing, you know? And I think you see the similar situation kind of in the high power executive world as well, where they’re the masters of their domain and functioning at that level becomes like the it, it’s just the, it’s like the, the, the measure that the rest of their life is, is held up against. You know, it’s like I crush it here and the reason that I crushed it here is because I don’t allow for any of this bullshit that’s going on.
You know, everybody knows exactly what’s expected of them. They perform, you know, and that doesn’t work at home.
Not for a long with that mindset, maybe not as effective.
Yeah. Not as effective. But then it just creates this like this dissonance for the person, you know, and they’re like, wow, okay, so now I have to be this person when I’m at work and I have to be this person when I’m at home. And that’s really challenging to do. So, which of the two things, like where do I suffer more if I’m not the person that I need to be? And almost always it’s at work because that’s where the places is, that’s where you’re earning your income. That’s where your reputation and all of these things get. Your ego gets wrapped up in, you know, so you see people trending towards like, well, if I’m going to prioritize a way to be, I gotta be this way and the person who loves me most, she’s not going to leave me cause she loves me.
You know, so she’s going to take the beating on this. You know, and I’m sure it goes both ways. Like, I’m sure there’s, you know, um, high powered women executives out there that are out there that come home and beat their husbands, you know,
Figuratively speaking figuratively. Yeah. Well I just had an amazing podcast with John Gray. The uh, the author of men are from Mars. Women are from Venus number one best selling relationship author of all time. And his insights were, were pretty amazing and along these lines. And one of the things is like, this is all new stuff because we had these traditional gender roles that were for centuries, eons back to a hunter gatherer times. We know the women got most of the food that the females and the men were doing, the physical hunting of the animals. And so we come into industrial revolution and it was the man’s workplace world and the women was nurturing, caretaking. And so he talks his new book, uh, Beyond Mars and Venus talks about the hormonal underpinnings of relationship dynamics and what works and what, when things get out of balance. And one of them is like the females in the workplace. It’s a wonderful progress for society, but the workplace is a testosterone dominant.
He calls it male dominant, not not to offend a female in the workplace, but it’s a testosterone dominant, competitive, focus driven, solve problems, all these things. So a female in the workplace is going against her estrogen, testosterone, hormonal balance. So she needs to unwind when she gets home, which means she needs to vent to her partner with her partner sitting there and listening quietly, not offering a solution. All those old time Mars and Venus insights and the man needs to constantly nurture and rebuild testosterone. So he can’t be in a relationship where there’s bickering and complaining because the man wants to feel like a super powerful problem solver, crushing it at work, crushing it at home. And so the couple can set these dynamics up where you’re playing to his strengths and you’re playing to her strengths and everything can be wonderful, but we have to recognize, wow, we’re fighting a battle against the gender balance in modern culture.
Right. Yeah. Again, this comes back to just intelligence, emotional intelligence, right? Because many people wouldn’t even know to think about that. They wouldn’t even think, well, Oh, I’m, you know, I’m going against the cultural or gender norms. Like this is what it takes these days I think is to really look at what’s there for each couple individually and to zoom out and say, okay, what’s our dynamic? What are the things that we’re battling with and what are the tools that we can implement to overcome it or to master this, this piece of our life. Yeah.
I wonder how that’s going for him with the, you know, there’s, there’s so much, there’s just so much sort of outrage just ready to be unleashed upon anything. Anybody that says gender and associated with something like we were just talking about right there. You know, I wonder, I wonder how he’s doing with that.
because same with like the PC stuff. Yeah. You know, my son’s like, he’s pretty sensitive and into that stuff and you know, he’ll give me a hard time for, for rapping at the start of the podcast cause I’m impersonating or I’m appropriating. Oh. Someone else’s culture. And you know, when I was, um, when, when I was younger, um, there were some different acceptance levels of stuff and everybody would imitate Jimmy Walker dynamite, JJ on the show, um, as a, as a funky black dude with a floppy hat. Right. And he was so funny, he was the funniest guy in America. It’s like, well that’s not that funny now cause you know, it’s an indoctrinated, prejudicial thinking and stuff. You have to be, you have to be more careful extra. But I like when people like that hit hard.
Wendy Walsh was on my show, the relationship therapist. And so that’s why we’re sticking on this subject. But she’s saying like, um, Oh the, the top three things a male and a female look for in a relationship, no matter what you say, come out of your mouth. Like number one is sense of humor. Nope, not really because your genetic drives aren’t looking for something else. For female. It’s, um, number one resources. Number two, intelligence. And number three, kindness. So the females want the Ferrari more than anything else. It doesn’t matter if he’s funny or sweet with polite, no resources. Intelligence to go get more resources if he loses his resources. And then kindness is cool to land in there and the man wants number one, youth and beauty. Number two, loyalty. Because fertility is concealed by by humans. So you don’t know if you’re uh, if you’re the father, so to speak, that’s your main genetic drive in life. So you want a female who’s loyal rather than going out and uh, maybe getting impregnated by six other random people. Yeah. And then number three is kindness. Yeah. So yeah, so we, we cut to, we cut to, you know, today’s balancing all this stuff and um, you know, saying everything you got to say in a relationship with loving kindness would be like a goal. Using that emotional intelligence and knowing this is where I think you guys got into some magic there. Like you, you express that you have this baseline level of respect, this foundation. So anything that’s said, even if it’s a little charged, you’re going to back it up a little bit and maybe you’ve figured out like your words, wisdom of strategies going. Okay, I hear ya. I hear ya. Let’s, let’s sit down and talk about this further rather than calm the F down, like things that you should never ever say to a female who’s estrogen imbalance. Right? Yeah. But man, to unwind some of this stuff and realize like my goal, you know, was it had, and with producing a podcast and listening to podcasts, it’s like we want to continue to progress, man. We don’t want to repeat these same mistakes. Otherwise we’re, we’re, we’re, we’re stupid instead of intelligent, literally. Right.
Well, and I think it’s, you know, it’s actually goes deeper for all of us than we tend to think. And I think that’s what’s been really helpful for Adam and I, is that we really taken our relationship work has taken on a sense where we work deeply on ourselves. Looking at what was the thing that started this behavior way back when, when we were kids. What’s the thing that we’re arguing right now? But where did this start for one of us individually or together? What was the, you know, thing that happened to us in third grade that made this first wall go up or this first reaction and it goes deep. You know, and oftentimes what you’re arguing about in the moment is literally something that was created decades ago. And so I think it just really takes time to, to sift through the files of your life together and go, you know, why do I react that way? Why am I self conscious about that thing? Like where does it come from? And I think that that’s really where the magic has been for us is going and doing that really deep, deep work.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And then, and then we’ve been together forever. That’s some point, you know, and I, I’d, it’d be interesting to know what the statistic is on, on marriages based on like when, how old the people were when they got married. You know what I mean? It was like our, do our young marriages more apt to fail than people who get married later in life or what that number is. But cause I could kinda like, I could probably argue either way. I mean, I’ve no idea what it is, but I know for us it’s like we were kids fundamentally when we got married, and fortunately the way that we progressed through it was by kind of growing up together, not growing away from each other, which you could 100% see that would have that. How that would happen. I mean, I’m a completely different person now, 42 than I was a 25 like no doubt. And so it was Vanessa, you know? And then fortunately,
shit, how old are you, Vanessa?
I’m 40 I just,
Oh my God. Yeah, I mean you were like 20 something when I, when I, when I saw you at primal, I was like 2009 maybe it was 10 years ago. Oh my gosh. It’s crazy. We’re all grown. Okay. All right. Yeah, you guys look good. Let’s say you look the same as when I saw,
yeah, we just keep clicking away. You know, like a year after year. It’s like,
Whoa, there’s one more and.
they go faster too, for whatever reason. But yeah, I mean if you, if you can find it within yourself to grow along with and in support of your partner, it’s a, you know, that, that’s what we’ve been fortunate enough to be able to cultivate is like literally we both recognize we’re turning into different people. And I think it was who’s the guy that wrote the prophet? No, no, no. The Prophet. The Prophet. Yeah. So there was a, there was a passage in that book or like short list of insights or whatever that, whatever you want to call that, where he talked about marriage and how the marriage should be looked, should look, be looked at like a house where there’s two columns supporting the house, you know, the husband and the wife. And then the closer together the columns are, the less stable the house is. And so you need the separation and distance between each other and you both have to be able to stand on your own for it to, to stand up. And I read that probably as part of my required reading or early on in our relationship and that, that piece really stuck with me.
Cause I was any joke, Adam, is that everybody recommended reading?
There was a list. Yeah,
we just had the James Redfield who wrote the Celestin prophecy on the pod.
Oh nice. Right on. Yeah.
And that in that book was another one to kind of in that, that, that same time frame. And you know, I’ve been really fortunate in our relationship, the Vanessa is just, you know, she doesn’t put up with a lot for very long, but it’s not just criticism, it’s like, look, here’s some things that I think would help, you know, you see things my way this great. Like I’m, I’m a lifelong learner and I read like a lot, you know, so it’s like you want to give me a book about something that you think is going to be helpful. I’m definitely gonna read it. You know? And so The Prophet and self esteem prophecy were two of those things. I was like, Oh, okay. Just kind of opens up my, you know, or opened up my thought process on like how the shifts of energy and interaction between people and all of this stuff plays out.
And the third book was, uh, shut the fuck up, one of the best seller list now. Oh unfuck yourself. There you go. Merry Christmas. My love prophecy and I’m fuck yourself. And here’s another one. Make your fucking bed cause I always have a C in there.
Well isn’t that a Jordan Peterson’s new book? The 12 rules. Really? Yeah. Basically like rule one, make your bed. You can’t make your bed every day like you need to do. Don’t worry about what else was going on with the world.
Yeah, I call that one out and challenge it right there. Just like all the, you know, all the hype or subjected to now and all the, all the gurus telling us how to live and how you can be almost as good as me but not quite if you do everything I say and it gets to be too much. It’s like so much content coming in and like you can easily feel diminished. Like when you look at social media and there’s people on the beach with their glass and your, you know, raking leaves or whatever. Um, so like making your bed is this magical life changing thing. And then in many European countries the custom is to leave the bed unmade all day and they’ve done scientific studies showing that the microbes escape and allow the gases to circulate and make it more healthy rather than trapping all those mini farts under the covers every morning by making your bed. So Brad Kearns is saying, I mean there may be a lot of good insights in the bestselling book of that title. I don’t know about it. I want to trash that ball. It might be a gateway to saying be responsible and set goals like physically the physical act of making your bed, eh, you know, if you want or if you don’t want, you can still be a tidy person that’s productive all day.
It’s just about creating systems that you’re willing to stick to. Because I do think that from chaos, obviously some creativity can spring forth, but you can’t be in that space all the time if you actually want to be effective. Like there does have to be structure and commitment around the way you do your day. And so maybe that’s what people are talking about with the bed is just, you know, creating your life in a way where you have goals or you have things that you’re committed to that you follow through.
With Vanessa is staring right at me, my eyes are darting around cause she’s talking, she’s coming right into my heart, pulling it out of my chest and speaking to it and in an emphatic voice. But you’re, you’re talking to me. I’m listening cause that’s big one. I mean, um, you can, you can get that creativity run wild. I mean, yeah.
Yeah, I know cause I’m, I’ve been that person. I mean I am. Yeah. I’m that creative person. And so, but with, if you stay within that creative space all the time, all you do is just create more chaos at some point. You have to take that creativity and you have to understand how to, how to create structure around it in order to make something possible with it. This has been the biggest challenge for me and I think I’m getting better and better out of it. But the reason I am is because I’ve learned how to commit to systems. And if you just don’t, if you don’t have any systems, any structure in your life, then eventually you’re just going to feel the chaotic energy of all that creativity. And it just, it’s beautiful. We need it, we need that part of us and we want to nurture it. But at some point you have to put the container around it to actually make it into something beautiful that people can relate to and that they can experience from you.
What’s an example where you applied a systematic approach to a creative idea?
Well, you know, I am so Adam and I kind of have different seats in our business and I, I’m the, um, what’s the visionary is, is really what it comes down to, which is just a way of saying like, I’m the idea person because that’s what I love. I love coming up with ideas. And so the retreats and all the events that we run is a really good example of that because I come up with these awesome concepts. Wouldn’t it be amazing to take a group to Peru and hike, you know, do the Salkantay trail and hike to Machu Picchu and you know, it’s all this great creative fodder, but how do you actually put that into action? And so it turns out that you have to create the systems, like what is the actual, what, what are the dates? What are the actual requirements for this?
How do you know, how much does it cost? How many people can we take? What, you know, what kind of training do we need to be able to accomplish that? And Adam’s really helpful with me and has helped me get more structured in this because you know, he’s more of the engineer mind. So he’s very helpful in getting me kind of laid out or lined out on things so that then I can take action. But you know, I can sit around and think about all the amazing trips that would, that there could be to take people on. But at some point I have to take action and create structure to make it happen.
Yeah. Lots of spreadsheets,
lots of spreadsheets.
Right. And methodically tracking things, which I identify as one of my weakness. Like, um, you know, I’ve now done 50 podcasts and how, how do they compare? What’s the download, what are the trends, what are the main topics? I don’t know. But some of my favorites were Vanessa and Adam, John Gray, Mia Moore show right up there. Anyway, so I totally liked that blend. I liked that point. And then you guys have two people so you can get in yang net all day long.
Yeah. And you know, I think it’s important for people to find that counterbalance. So if that doesn’t all exist within you, maybe you have a business partner or maybe you have a business coach or maybe you have someone that helps to create that structure because that’s not your default setting. And so I don’t think that necessarily, if it’s not your strong suit, you should force yourself into mastering it to the point where you’re sick about it, but maybe get masterful enough where you find someone who can help you get organized or you find a system that works well enough to get you organized. But if you just let that stuff run rampant, then you actually end up being more dissatisfied about your creativity because it’s always disappointing. You have all these great ideas and all this great energy and it looks so beautiful in your mind, but it never is created in reality that way. And then you get disappointed. And that’s just like a point of diminishing returns, you know, a negative feedback loop.
I love it. It’s time for a deep breath. So also, there’s maybe a maybe more commonplace than it was in the past, but you have this dynamic duo here. So you’re, you’re working and living life together. And I wonder, uh, pros and cons. Like what are you, what are your observations?
Well, so it’s actually kind of an interesting study for us because like I said before, when I worked for the fire department, I was gone almost like if we totaled it up over the 22 years, I was probably gone 50% of that time. Like not, not in the home, not spending the night there.
Get the complete spectrum here. Yeah.
And then and, and often not really reachable. You know what I mean? So it’s like, not like I’m out on off on a business trip.
We’re going to Skype tonight. I didn’t know what kind of my, exactly. a firebreak number 14 yeah, exactly. On the past,
literally all the cell towers burned down.
What kind of excuse is that, but this is like, come on, get it together. I’ll do for
that. But, so we’ve, we’ve gone from that world where like literally gone all the time too and worked together in that world as well for the last four, five years realistically to now since July. I’m home full time. Like we haven’t spent more than two days apart I think since July, which is like, we’ve never done that in the 15 years that we’ve been married, you know? And so it’s an interesting study actually to see. And it was, it was one of the things that both of us were kind of most concerned about with me leaving that job and, and coming into the business full time and you’re like, well, we’ve never been together this, this often, you know, for this long. But it’s actually, it’s been working really well, like a, so much of the, um, I don’t know, I guess the lack of it or the loss of momentum in what we’re doing, both with our relationship and with the business and all of the things going on that would happen when I left and went to work, you know, necessarily happened when I left and went to work. It doesn’t exist anymore. So it’s like now that time that I was gone fundamentally that space is, and time is eaten up in us getting to do stuff together, you know, so like we’re
still working on the business the same amount of time, but now we have time to just kinda be together and chill, which didn’t exist before. It was like I was at work and then I was home and when I was home it was work. Work, work, work, work until I left, you know, and now there’s some room to breathe, you know, which is nice.
Yeah. And it’s like, for me, uh, I was a sort of probably opposite in terms of like when he would leave, it’s almost like I would turn off the emotional switch because you only can miss someone for so long. For so many years of your life, you’re just like, it’s not a fun place to live. It’s not a fun place to be. Like, Oh, he’s leaving again for half the week. It’s like I would tend after a while. I just tend to just kind of turn the emotions off like, okay, he’s, he’s gone. Yeah. Like they just don’t think about it because otherwise you’re just in like suck land about it. Him being gone all the time. So in a way it would be really difficult because then he would come home and I, it’s like, Oh yeah, I have to turn my emotions back on and now you’re in my space and I have my whole life without you.
But now you’re here and it’s, it was actually way more awkward than it was like a pressure release. So now it’s just so much better because we’re together and then we can choose like, Oh, I want a little space by myself. Cool. I can go do something and then be excited that you’re home when I get home. And so I think it was just, it’s a lot more healthy. And I think it’s actually one of the reasons that so many, um, people within the fire department, the relationships are strained because so many women do do this. They have their own life, they have their own sort of system and circuit, and then the husband shows up and it’s like, Oh, you’re here, but how long are you going to be here for? And you know, it’s, it’s a very awkward thing. So I think for us it’s just been like, it’s allowed us to be even more loving and more connected.
So, cause we were worried because a kid could go the other way. Yeah. I hope this works out well.
You seem to have made it work for those years. When you had the realities of a, of a first responder career and so forth. Um, so possibly there’s some good attitudes behind the surface. Cause I, I, I feel like, um, there’s times when it doesn’t work in both directions. Yeah. You know, uh, commonly the person retires from the workplace and the man’s around the house all day and the wife is going crazy and tell him to go get another job. But they’d be looking forward to this day for so long and, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That’s tough.
It’s, yeah. And it’s real. It’s real man. I mean, we see it all the time, you know, just getting, like later on in my career, guys that I’ve been working with start to retire, you know, a couple of people that are a little bit older than me, you know, and they, they’re gone for maybe six months and then they’re back and you’re like, what happened? I’m like, I just couldn’t do it. You know, I can’t spend this much time at home. You’re like, wow, okay.
Oh and I have like a lot around this because it’s, I think that a lot of times, you know, intimacy, there’s almost a lack of intimacy in a way in a lot of these relationships because they’ve started out with being separate a lot of the times. And oftentimes men choose these jobs because they’re uncomfortable being very intimate. Like the intimacy is difficult for them. So a lot of times they choose these careers where they’re separate because it’s uncomfortable for them to really dig into those pieces of themselves. And you know, I’m sure there’s a lot of firemen and police officers and whatever, that’s not the case, but it’s something that I’ve seen and I was a firefighter, so like I’ve been within it. I understand you could see these, you know, almost this level of discomfort for these men to be deeply embedded in their families and in their relationships. It’s more comfortable for them to be with their boys
Uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, I mean it doesn’t have to be firefighter, police to be the lawyer or long working hours person who then goes to the card games on Tuesday in the gym on Wednesday and the golf course and all that. Just avoidance. Yeah,
avoidance. And it takes a certain, again, it comes back to that emotional intelligence like are you, does it make you uncomfortable in those, in, in the intimacy of your relationship and you know, and it’s not about just sex, it’s about like the deeply intimate connection in your life. And so I think that’s something that a lot of men have to learn. They have to cultivate or else it’s just easier to go. I’m just going to know, push that aside.
Yeah. Well it’s hard to, it’s hard to separate, you know, and this is, this is something I know it happens in within the first responder world and obviously it happens in the military, but there’s, there’s levels of stresses and things that you go through like life events that you experience with your work family. Like with the people that, whether it’s your platoon, whether it’s your fire station, whether it’s your partner, if you’re a cop, however that works out, you go through shit with those people that you do not go with through with your family, hopefully. You know what I mean? Cause uh, you know, and there’s also this tendency in that, in that environment. And I think it cuts both ways. Like sometimes it’s the person who is in the job and sometimes it’s the significant other at home who shuts down that level of that communication.
But if you don’t have the ability to talk to your significant other about the kinds of things that are happening and you’re experiencing at work, like if that gets shut down anywhere along the line, then all of the sudden the only place that that person feels comfortable is with the people that they’ve experienced this with. You know? And, and that happens a lot. And the same thing happens for the person at home because they’ve got experiences happening in their, in their day to day world. You know, it’s like, uh, and you know, not to like demean it or whatever, but it’s like, yeah, we were on our way to soccer practice and you know, John, Johnny got hit by a car and you know, lost a skateboard and this thing and there’s this like, thing that happened that the other person wasn’t part of, you know. And so now if that dynamic of communication about what this kind of stuff is like doesn’t exist, then you put up another barrier between, you know, for that kind of stuff.
And it’s, it’s, it’s a tricky one, you know. And I mean, like I, I worked with a lot of people who never talked about anything that happened at work at home because, and then like, this is verbatim from guys mouth. Like, yeah, well when I first started dating my wife, I’d come home and tell her about stuff and she’s like, I don’t want to hear about that. That’s terrible. I don’t want to hear about that. So he, one time she said that, and 20 years go by and he never says anything ever again. And she’s like, I don’t understand why you’re so distant from me. And he’s like, well, you told me when you were 19 you told me you didn’t want it to hear about this terrible traffic accident I was at. And he’s like, well shit man, you know your life. Yeah. It’s like you gotta you don’t want to hear about my life then.
Right. And that’s how, and that’s just kind of how it gets embedded and you’re like, okay, well I guess you know, and especially not to like harp on this stuff too much, but there’s often a feeling of shame around having these things impact you. So like in the, in the fire service especially, and it’s getting better now, but it’s like suck it up, buttercup. People die all the time. Like, why is this? Why is this impacting you? You know? And when you’re brand new and all the guys you’re working with have been doing it for 15 or 20 years, they’re salty and crusty and like, they don’t even remember what that, what just happened on that call. But it was the first time you ever did CPR and had a person die and you’re having a very different experience than those guys are. You know, and the feedback you get is whatever, man, go to sleep, tomorrow’s another day, we’re going to do it again, you know, and then to go home and kind of get the same thing or like I don’t want to hear about that, can really close that stuff down. You know, it’s tough to tough to get out of that spiral, you know?
And these, I mean the, like you said, this is you know, kind of acute circumstances, but this happens in every everyday life and all careers, all of this stuff happens in relationships all the time. And so yeah, it all just comes back to that like being keenly aware about how you are about things, you know, do I make space for my partner to, to share with me who he is, what his day’s about and or do I just, am I so self absorbed and you know, we’re all so busy. I don’t even mean that as an insult. We’re just, we’re so busy dealing with what we have at hand that it’s often hard to make that extra space because we don’t even feel like we have enough space to get done what we need to get done.
And so it just, it takes a lot of presence in your life to be aware of these little moments that turn into big ways of being.
So to get that space and rebalance that life, we really should go on retreat.
So you guys have had this interesting journey in the primal paleo scene, dating back to kind of the very beginnings of the hotbed of Chico, California. So I want to hear about that and how all the kind of emanated out of there and went on to long careers spreading the word and how it’s gone for you guys.
Yeah. So, yeah. So we started, we started training with Rob Wolf at Nor Cal Strength and Conditioning prior to it being CrossFit Norco. So whenever that was that I had to be like 2005 or six, something like that. And, um, it was, it’s funny because when we first started training, they’re like, he didn’t even mention like paleo wasn’t really a thing. Like I think our detainees book was out. Um, but it wasn’t like a word that you were familiar with in a 2000 perspective. Yeah, there was, yeah. It wasn’t.
Loren Cordain’s book was out in 2002,
the movement was nowhere.
Yeah. It just, it just wasn’t really happening. So you go and start training and Rob would just sort of like start to incrementally introduce concepts like, yeah.
Like w. hat you’re eating might actually be influencing how you’re performing. You know, it’s like what, what is this madness?
You know, gels here. Sorry.
No, yeah. Is there any, is there anything that’s gonna make me really strong and, uh, I can, you know, recover better and I don’t have to change anything about the way I eat. No. But, um, he was really kinda obviously instrumental in shifting our focus on that stuff. And Vanessa actually, um, when we were training there, she said Chico is a agricultural hotbed, right? And so if you suffer from seasonal allergies, like Chicos probably going to be brutal for you. And that was exactly the situation with Vanessa when she moved there, it was like, it was terrible. And actually her aunt said, Hey, you know what, you should try cutting gluten and dairy from your diet and this will help with your seasonal allergies. And I was like, that’s bullshit. You know, which doctor, what could this have to do with anything? And she, she actually came home from training one day at the gym and she’s like, Rob says, cutting gluten and dairy. Like exactly what’s up.
Yeah. He said, my diet’s legit. Yeah. I know Adam was really sad about that moment and I was like, you know, feeling so teacher’s pet at that point. Yeah.
Like at the end of the day, that was really the introduction to it. And then it was, you know, Rob started doing seminars and stuff for CrossFit and um, I got to participate in sort of the betas of some of those at the gym and really started to get into this. And it was like, man, this really makes a lot of sense. You know, like everything that you’re saying here makes a tremendous amount of sense. And we started making these changes in our, in our life. And then as the gym grew and people started coming in, when we started working there and training there, you, you could just see it immediately when people would come in and they’d be training for maybe a month or so and they’re getting some level of results and then all of a sudden they make the switch in their diet and it’s like the, it’s an, you know, panacea so to speak.
And it, um, so that really just got kind of ingrained in us and I started taking what we were doing at NorCal and trying to apply it to work well for my guys at the fire station, I was a captain at the time, so I had a station of dudes that I was, you know, responsible for keeping healthy and staying fit enough to do the job. And we just started massaging this stuff out and it was like, yeah, this is, this is the jam. You know, like, this is what, this is kind of what you need to be doing. You know, you need to eat meat and you need to eat vegetables and you need to not eat these other things at least for a period of time and a train responsibly. And that ethos just spiraled into our business fundamentally. You know? I mean, there’s a lot of steps along along the way.
Yeah. And it just permeated the culture of the gym and you know, that that time in our lives was so important because we were CrossFitting for one, which basically means suffering. We were suffering deeply in our workouts and doing really hard things physically, but we were doing ’em with people in our gym who became great friends because, you know, it’s just like anything that you do that is hard, when you do it together, it bonds you. And so we had this group of friends who was eating the same way we were eating training the same way we were, and we were having these really intense experiences together. And from that culture just sprouted out a lot of amazing business opportunities and ideas. And you know, Sarah Cordoza came out of that time and Glen Cordoza who’s written all the books and Katie Cordoza and you know, just our whole group started to kind of figure out how we could take this information and the success that we’d had with each other and with the, our experience with Rob and kind of mold it into our own offering into the world. And that, that was when we moved to LA when Rob introduced us to Mark. And that’s how we met you and you know, just kind of continued to spiral into, you know, how can we make a difference? How can we take this energy and this success that we’ve had and, and turn it around and pay it forward and what can be our unique contribution in that sense.
Yeah. Yeah. And a big piece of it is the community aspect. I mean, it was, I think for both of us, it was the, the only time in our lives that we had fundamentally stuck to a consistent strength and conditioning regimen and a consistent nutrition plan for years on end without it seeming like it was a thing. You know, it’s like all of a sudden this is just how we are, you know? And a big piece of that was the community. Just like Vanessa said, it’s like these people, we train together, we eat together, we’re doing all of this stuff together. And so fostering that community was a big part of the, the impetus for be the wellness and how our coaching programs work, which are fundamentally community coaching. I mean we work with individuals but it’s everybody together in the same experience. And that makes a really big difference for folks who are remote and isolated. And you’re out there and you’re the only one who’s like, I want to give this a shot. And you’re surrounded by people who just don’t support it. You know, you need something to kind of to, to foster that. And then with the retreats, it was really just an extension of that community. Now we’ve built this community and now let’s bring everybody in person to meet each other and really do this.
Yeah. And use that health and fitness and, and you know, motor skill or whatever it is that we’re cultivating within the strength and conditioning and the programming, like how can we come, come together and use it in a fun and unique way? And that’s really where the retreats of blossom from is just, you know, we always say like, what mountain do you want to climb? Or what river do you want to raft? What do you want to do with the health? Because you’re not going to get a blue ribbon for like, Oh you, you are healthy, good for you. The real prize is in the how you use it. And so that’s always been an important piece of our business and our offering is how can we get people out using this physical ability that they’ve been working so hard to cultivate in these life changing amazing experiences.
So are you doing some adventures, some physical adventures on the retreat and blending that with lectures, workshops for different stuff? What is is like?
Yeah, we, I mean, honestly we have so many various offerings, but um, you know, for instance, we’re taking a group and doing a 10 day hike to Machu Picchu in Peru. So we’re on the trail for seven days. We do Salkantay trail, we crest up over 15,000 feet. You know, it’s, uh, it’s a, it’s a pretty intense, rigorous, um, you know, seven day hike that we do. And so that’s one of our offerings. We do a retreat in Costa Rica every year where we take people surfing, whitewater rafting, hiking. We kinda just combine all these different, uh, things that are accessible in Costa Rica cause it’s just like an adult playground. And then, um, you know, on the flip side of it, we were just in Africa and we did an African Safari, which wasn’t necessarily as physically demanding, but was more just about going out and connecting with our tribe and doing just something incredible and having an experience of a lifetime together.
So we kind of run the gamut, but it’s all about having that community. If you’re going to go to Africa and you’re going to be on Safari, why not be with the people that you’re are in your online community, where you’re doing your training, you’re talking about health and fitness, you know that these are your people. And you know, having these awesome paleo meals and knowing that you’re going to be fed really well and taking really good care of, it’s like, it just makes these once in a lifetime experiences even more special because you’re sharing them with these people that are your friends, they feel like family.
So you’re bringing the food along, you’re setting them up with healthy meals, whether it’s Africa or Costa Rica or Peru. Yeah, yeah. It’s pretty much a chicken, a lot of bags or something.
Yeah. So oftentimes there’s in house chefs wherever we go, and we just make sure that the menus are created in a way that supports the dietary agreements that we have. And um, or we have a private chef that we work with a lot and we’ll bring her along to our events as well. So it just depends on where we’re going and what the situation is.
Yeah. And maybe not surprisingly, once you get outside the States, it’s actually a lot easier to eat paleo and primal, you know what I mean? Like what’s their food, you know,
That was our pull quote for the show. Yeah. Note to Dan audio engineer. I mean how trippy is that? Yeah, yeah. It’s so much easier when you get out of the States.
Yeah, and to like really sort of seal that that point to some degree in Peru we had set the, the dietary restrictions and we’d set all of this stuff up and when we got there it was like looking through the menus and all of this. We’re like, wait a second, what is this like why is, why do we have gluten free pasta on the menu? Like what is going on here when in reality like what’s available to be eaten here is meat and vegetables and some and 700 varieties of potato, which is kind of handy. And what they were doing was trying to meet our requirements by shifting their natural normal diet, which actually met the requirements right here come to the Americans.
The Americans were going to, you know, we’re going to create some stuff. Yeah they don’t. Yeah, they don’t, they don’t eat gluten so we’re going to have to use gluten free pasta. And we were like, wait a second, what are those guys eating? Like, that’s what we want, like this, this is what we meant by this. You know, and obviously they were, it was a simple problem to solve and get that sorted out. But it’s an interesting thing to think about in the, in the grand scheme, these sort of more traditional cultures are often eating so much closer to what, you know, what we’re striving for and paying arguably twice as much to do in the States that you would be to shop at 7/11.
If corporate forces have not descended upon these poor countries and slammed the stuff home. I go to Sayulita, Mexico and now it’s coming up in popularity, but sleepy surfing village outside of Puerto Vallarta. And you go to the restaurants there and have some of the most incredible food and delicious, nutritious. There’s a breakfast buffet with where they have the pumpkin and the other vegetables and the meat all together. And then you go around the corner and there’s a frickin might as well be 7/11. It’s a convenience store with the bright light contrast with the, the village feel. And it’s just so it’s disgraceful what we’ve done.
Yeah, yeah, it’s
leave them alone. They’d be fantastic. But instead we’re modernizing their experience and getting them, getting them sick.
Yeah. It gives us so much compassion and just so much love for the American struggle for diet and health because we really, we aren’t just being lazy, we aren’t just being all of those things like we have to fight extra hard to be healthy here. And it really is, it’s really tough because you can say no to 90% of stuff and still be infiltrated with crap. You know, like it, it’s literally like you’re fighting a constant battle against everything that’s coming at you, whether it’s, you know, in the water, in your cosmetics or in your food or whatever it is. There’s just this constant onslaught of things that are not natural for us. And so even you’re trying to be hyper vigilant, there’s still like 20% of the stuff that’s getting through and it’s, it’s really tough. The battle is no joke here in America.
Yeah. Yeah. It’s really true. And in fact, it’s a big part of one of the coaching programs that we just launched with the body mind roadmap is helping people navigate even paleo and primal now. Because even even being in that category, you know, and being like, well, I’m primal or I’m paleo and not that there’s a paleo aisle yet in most stores, but we’re getting close to that chock full of processed products that check the box because they’re lacking specific ingredients, you know? And so now we’re checking all these paleo primal boxes and now it’s not the case. Now all of a sudden this requiring a sort of deeper level of education and understanding around nutrition that for the individual to really Wade their way through paleo and primal now in order to be, you know, still kind of meeting the same intent that was there before all the products were created to backfill, you know, the lack of gluten free donuts.
You tend to model ancestral diet is being washed away in packaging. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Guys, now you’ve got to tell me about this subject. I know nothing about, but it seems to becoming very popular in progressive health circles and elsewhere. Uh, but the, um, the, the, the Ayahuasca Retreat, the, the spiritual journey, right. I get them smile. They’re all into this. Yeah, I understand you’re leading a retreat with that specific, uh, centerpiece coming up. So what’s the scoop here?
You know, it’s interesting cause Adam and I are both from Northern California. You’re from Northern Cal.
I’m from LA, right here. Oh you actually, you are, but you’ve been living there a long time.
Yeah, you’ve been there awhile. Um, and we’re, you know, from even a little deeper Mendocino and Lake County, which is just, you know, it’s a little bit more Bohemian a little more hippie. And so we kinda grew up in a culture where a lot of people grew marijuana, a lot of people did psychedelics. It was kind of somewhat of a cultural norm. And so, you know, I started doing psychedelics that are really young age. You know, probably 14. I did my first, I ate mushrooms for the first time. And it’s not that I’m,
that was for one of your finals in middle school. They said, okay, kids, we’re going to do the mushrooms tomorrow. Now it wasn’t that bad in Mendocino, but for those of you unfamiliar, this coastal County in Northern California has been the, the marijuana growing capital for many years prior to legality, but way out in the forest it was a big deal and still is now. You know, I guess there’s more.
Yeah. With that comes sort of a culture and a lot of that culture is around, you know, other, other substances. And so, you know, I’m not recommending that kids do it that young. It’s like, obviously that worked out for me. Okay. But it just was one of those things where we had access and a lot of people were doing it. And so, um, I just remember the first time that I did psychedelic mushrooms, I had a real clear vision that all of the things that seemed so important to me and like such a big deal in my 13, 14 year old mind were suddenly so minimal. And there was such a bigger vision of what it meant to be human and what was important in life. And a lot of that had to do with just being loving, being grounded, being centered and being, um, available in your life for the magic that is there.
And this is a pretty profound experience for a young person to have. But I’m so grateful because it model, it molded a lot of the way that I created my life as I got older. And I actually stayed in touch with psychedelics through my years and you know, tried various things growing up and kind of took a break in my adult years because just busy and working and just kinda got away from it. But um, it seems as though psychedelics and Ayahuasca and magic mushrooms and all of these things are sort of making a comeback in terms of people realizing the tremendous emotional and cognitive benefits that can come from trying them from, from having facilitated experiences. And so Ayahuascawas, it’s kind of the mothership of psychedelics. It’s definitely like the big whamajama. It’s it, you know, you want to be in a guided, safe place.
Speaker 7 (01:03:46):
You want to have a shaman or someone who’s very familiar with the medicine. And we’ve been lucky enough to have those experiences. And this last year we went to Costa Rica to a place called Rhythmia where they lead, um, guided Ayahuasca retreats and had an incredible life changing experience and just felt even more dedicated to fall in alignment with helping people find their way to these tools. And again, back to that emotional intelligence. It really helps you to understand your mindscape and understand where you’re coming from emotionally and sort of weed through the things that are getting in the way of the person that you really want to be. And um, heal some of the broken places in your heart and soul so that you can move forward as a more whole person. And so for me, that’s been, I won’t speak for Adam all let him, you know, kind of speak his own, his own side of the story. But it’s been such a wonderful benefit to my heart and soul. And I just love being in alignment with helping people to discover that.
Ma’am. So I think like one of the things.
that it’s really dangerous. Don’t do it. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. But, but it’s probably not for you, so don’t, don’t try. Um, but I mean it is, it is important to say though, that’s like, you know, and it seems like it should go without saying, but unfortunately it doesn’t that like ultimately sharing your own experiences about something should have no bearing on how you go about living your life, you know? But how else do you talk about this stuff? You know? So we certainly don’t recommend like that people go and do it. You know, it’s like this isn’t something that I say everybody should do, but there’s no doubt that there’s some benefit to be had for the people who are called by it, for lack of a better term and are interested in doing it. And, and the most important thing in all of that is to be experimenting with this stuff in a safe place that’s reputable, that has a good track record and medical support.
And it’s in a country where it’s legal and the, you know what I mean? You gotta just check all of these boxes of, of safety and sort of just, you know, I don’t know what, what the right word is, but you just have to get it put in the right container, you know? And from my perspective, and I think the, the Rythmia is like the place that has really nailed that. I mean, I’m sure that there are many more, but that’s the one that we’re familiar with. And like, from my perspective with this stuff, it’s like, you know, my, I’m super analytical, like I overthink almost everything, you know, to, to the nth degree. And it has served me well in a lot of ways, but it’s a, it’s not a very good way to get to know your own mind, you know, it has been my experience, like analyzing your own thoughts just leads to.
rumination, health consequences of modern times.
Yeah, exactly. You’re just, you’re just chasing this stuff around and around and, and without any real way to sort of step back and view that process, um, you’re, you’re just going to be chasing your tail. You know what, at least that was certainly my experience with it. And I will say that Ayahuasca was one thing that allowed me to step back and see what’s going on. And so like when you’re going through this loop in your head and you’re like, yeah, but this is how it is, but this is how it is. But this is how it is. You don’t, it’s very difficult to say, but what if it’s not? And I’ll ask a very says it very clearly, like I’m like, but no, this is it. This is it. And it’s like, but what if it isn’t? And you’re like, Oh shit, what if it isn’t?
And then all of the sudden there’s this entire other world of possibility of how you think about things, how things from your past affect you, how, how you want to move forward with the way that you process the information around you. And the things that you’re worried about just opens up and you get to pick what parts of it you want to keep. But it’s like, it just shakes up the snowglobe so to speak to a point where you know, you, you have access to a perspective that wasn’t there before, you know? And that’s, yeah, that’s my experience with it and.
Trip out on that stuff. Yeah.
Yeah. And I mean, and again, it isn’t for everybody and well, I mean,
I mean we want, we want you to be safe. All that stuff. It’s [inaudible], it’s hallucinogenic, whatever. But, um, why are you couching an ad? Is there a reason?
Well, if you actually do have, um, history of mental health issues in your family, like particularly males between the age, I think of like 16 and 22, if you have schizophrenia or anything that runs in your family, you need to be aware of that. So there are some actual um, you know, some things. Yeah, some contraindications if you’re, if you’ve been on antidepressants it’s definitely, especially SSRI there’s a huge contraindication especially with um, with Ayahuasca. So there are some real things to consider and to weigh out. And the best thing you can do is really do the research for what you think you might want to try. Um, some of the safeties or you know, some of the, like for instance, nobody’s ever overdosed on mushrooms. So for all intents and purposes it’s a pretty safe thing to try. But you would want to go and do research and read about it.
And if you have, if you’re on any medications or if you’ve had any depression issues, if you’ve had any of that kind of stuff in your life, you would want to really take a fine tooth comb through the data out there and see if something like that is a good idea for you. And again, like Adam said, you know, or find a safe place or it’s legal. Um, this is one of the things that we love about Rhythmia is that there’s a fully licensed medical staff and it’s completely legal and in the country of Costa Rica. So you, you know, you, they get your medical history, they find out what exactly is going on with you to see if it is a right fit for you. So you know, I think it’s just one of those things where you have to take a lot of personal responsibility, but if you are called to it and there is like this intuitive thing that happens where people just are like, this sounds interesting to me, I’m curious what’s there for me, then I think it can be a wonderful tool to explore.
Descriptions may make anyone courious. You could have been talking about reading the self esteem prophecy, but you’re talking about tripping out Peru. Uh, but so if I, if I checked all those boxes and pass my physical and it was at the safe place, would you strongly recommend it to me or would would you see certain, certain people, their sticks too far up there but, and they’re not going to get a positive experience out of it? Or is it like universally positive experience for people that are, you know, healthy to going in?
I think the biggest thing is about how you process the experience, whether you consider it positive or not, because it may be difficult in the sense that you learn some, you have some difficult insights or you learn some things about yourself that maybe aren’t the best you see, you know, ways that you are or you see things you’ve done in the past that might be painful and might be hard to look at. So if you’re the kind of person who looks at that and says, Oh, I don’t ever want to do that again because that sucked. This was horrible. I had a horrible trip. Oftentimes it may not be that it was a horrible trip, but it may be that you’re looking at stuff that’s difficult to look at. And that’s part of the process. So we always say it’s not a party drug, like these aren’t party drugs.
You know, that you can have beautiful experiences and see pretty lights and some cool psychedelic things. But oftentimes you’re digging through the archives of your life and finding the tough spots that need some love and care and some, um, some healing around. So I think that’s really the thing about it is that you can’t go in expecting that you’re going to have this party or this awesome, you know, Oh, this is so rad. Like it was, it’s not like getting drunk and partying with your friends. You’re doing hard work around the things that are there for you. And that if you’re ready to do that, and if you’re prepared for that and you’re willing to look at that stuff, it can be tremendously beneficial and healing.
Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And I think that they, so fortunately there’s siliciden, MTMA and Ayahuasca are all getting studied pretty heavily right now. The kids, it’s, it’s bubbling up and mostly because of the anecdotal evidence originally. And then now some of the early studies with dealing with treatment treatment resistant PTSD, which has been uncrackable from like a normal pharmaceutical perspective. And now you’re seeing guys that are coming out of some of these initial trials. It’s like a 87% success rate, right. With, with treatment resistant PTSD.
So there’s all the drugs. Yeah. And that’s still the trip. They’re still in pain and suffering yet.
and they’re still stuck, you know, and now they’re, you’re seeing this, this, this just done. It’s fixed, you know, and depending on the different processes, but maps has done a handful of studies with this stuff. And so if that’s, if that’s you out there listening, you know, if you, if you suffer from PTSD or you have this stuff going on, 100% go to MAPS and MAPS.org and look at the studies that these guys are doing. It’s the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. And this is what they’re looking at you. There’s trials to get in on. There’s all of this stuff to do. And it’s like, if that’s you and you’re suffering, this is a leaf, I would turn over, you know, and do the research and figure out if it’s the right thing. Because why, why fuck around, you know, if you can just be over.
And honestly, I mean I love to kind of like tail onto that, that most people are suffering in their own unique way. We’ve all had traumas, we’ve all had things that have happened to us in our lives and you know, maybe you’ve developed really great tools around how to do self healing and if that’s the case, great.
Yes, I’m, I’m usually right at all times. I’m one of the few people I know that has no past trauma and right. Never wrong. So I don’t know if I should do it or not, but maybe skip it. Maybe I’d be like the best candidate ever. Welcome. Everyone’s like rolling out the red carpet. Here he comes. The most perfect person in the world is now going welcome to the gates. Okay. Sorry, go ahead.
Yeah, and I, I just think that it’s important because we all should be taking time to heal. You know, we should all be taking time and space even if it’s just healing the stress of life, the stress of work, the stress of, you know, our food systems and everything that’s coming at us. And maybe that works for you with just having meditation every day or maybe you have other tools where you’re able to work that stuff out. But I would say that most of us come up against repeating issues in our life. The same thing kind of happens in a different way.
That must suck. I can’t imagine people
and we feel like, why does this thing keep happening to us? Or maybe we don’t even realize we don’t have the ability to see that it’s the same thing in a different [inaudible]
what? Repeating issue? Brand new first day. Every, I mean I’m always late today. It was raining and there was traffic so it doesn’t count
all the other people who drive like assholes. Nothing.
They got in another accident today, another jerk coming off the snow, the third accident of the month
Or you’re always fighting with your family members or there’s, you know, there’s just all these repeating patterns where it may, maybe instead of digging in your heels and being more right about it, maybe there’s a place that you can see, like Adam said, you can zoom out and see this from a new perspective and it offers you a lot of space to navigate life in a new way that maybe wasn’t available before.
You guys going to do a show on this or have you already on be the woman?
Yeah, we, we’ve done actually, um, we’ve done one with Jerry who’s the founder of Rhythmia and so you can find that on our podcast. Um, Jerry, uh, Jerry Powell. Yeah. Okay. Jerry Powell. I’m like, why is this not coming to me? Jerry Powell. And then we’ve also done a wrap up after we had our experience just talking about our experience in great detail so people can check that out.
Yeah. And uh, Dennis McKenna.
Yeah. We’ve had Dennis McKenna on whose Terrence McKenna’s brother who they were, uh, my, mycologists right.
ethnobotanist thank you. And did a lot of um, exploratory work around psilocybin, let’s say. Yeah. So they were kind of the psychonautic pioneers in the 70s and spent a bunch of time in the Amazon, uh, you know, basically taking various mushrooms and reporting on their experiences, but have, you know, since then written several books and sort of been the pioneers in this, in this field.
Yeah. Yeah. And Dennis now is, he’s on the board of the Heffter Institute, which is they, they study similar to MAPS. They’re studying psilocybin specifically for all of this, this kind of stuff. And he speaks, actually we, we caught him at paleo effects. He was speaking at paleo facts about entheogens and all of this stuff and we caught him there and pinned him down for a podcast. And so it’s just a good one to get some sort of the history of how long this has been present in the States. And like what the history of legalization slash studying slash schedule one slash not studying and kind of how all of this stuff went. Because while it seems new, it’s been going on here for a really long time
and Michael Pollan recently wrote a book to How to Change Your Mind, About Psychedelics, which is a really great resource for people. And what I love about it is that it’s written for regular people. You know, it’s like people who really don’t have a, a dog in the game so to speak, and are really looking for the science and the evidence of what’s actually there to be [inaudible]
the analytical types. Yeah, yeah. Word in the mushrooms at 14
because Adam and I are really on the separate ends of the spectrum with that. Like he didn’t do any of this stuff till well into adulthood and I did it earlier on. And it’s like there’s all kinds of people out there and you know, it doesn’t mean that you have to be a little hippy child like me growing up in the redwoods to have to necessarily do this stuff because there’s, I would say there’s something for most people in it, but you have to decide for yourself,
whew. Yeah. BEE the wellness.com. Right? Yep. We can learn about these different retreats. So it sounds like a very retreat experience. Yes. This Ayahuascaone is distinct going to this facility where that’s the centerpiece. The other stuff is about mountain biking, surfing and stand up paddling. And if you sign up for both, you get a discount want at the end. For sure. Brad said that if it didn’t exist now exist, just enter the code. Brad Kearns [inaudible]
add that. Um, I do offer a program called Authentic Self, which is a coaching program around the Rhythmia retreat. So you’ll get actually coaching and, and preparation for it for about six months. And then, yeah. And then integration, um, coaching on the other side of it because it’s a profound experience. And so I love being able to help prepare people emotionally and give you some spiritual and cognitive tools to go into that experience. And then on the other side, how to really integrate what you learned, what came out of that experience without just being thrown back into regular life going, okay, I had this life changing experience, but how do I integrate this into reality? So, um, so it’s called authentic self and it’s an option that you can add on with the retreat
Just click the box. That’s all you have to do. I mean, I feel like if you’re going to go to the trouble to do this, you should also do the Authentic Self.
Yeah. Especially if you’re, you know, if you’re nervous about the experience and you want a little extra support and well
You’ve always been right your whole life,
why would I start now?
It can happen at this retreat, I’m really nervous about this before and after
Yeah. Well, and, and I just think that, you know, um, anytime you have like more tools to pull from and we do a lot of breathwork. We do a lot of meditation. We do a lot of things to give you tools so that within the experience when, if you’re having a rough time, you’d be amazed how happy you are to know, Oh yeah, what about that breath work we did? Or what about that meditation or it really makes a difference in navigating these more difficult pieces of the experience.
Can, can you give that as a gift to someone you can that really deserves it?
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
That’d be trippy to put under the Christmas tree, huh?
Well, you know, there have been people, we were actually talking to folks there that came with friends that didn’t know what the retreat was. Just, Oh, I’m going to do a retreat, show up. And then they’re like, wait, what? We’re doing what?
So yeah. Could happen. You could surprise somebody.
Yes, it could happen
Speaker 6 (01:20:33):
Adam and Vanessa Lambert, great show. Thanks. Great to catch up. Oh my gosh. Why is, couldn’t have the record for the widest ranging show. I mean, like it or not, we’ll check our downloads, but we got down, we got the low down on the download. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you everybody. Thanks for listening.
Thanks for having us.
Thanks for having us, man.
Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback at email@example.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews, and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars. And it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves cause they need to. Thanks for doing it.