What a great honor to connect with two legends of triathlon on the occasion of the 30th anniversary of the greatest triathlon race of all time and what many observers call the greatest endurance competition of all time.

That’s the 1989 “Ironwar,” where Mark Allen and Dave Scott battled for the Hawaii Ironman world championship title, side-by-side for eight hours, before Mark pulled away to achieve his long-awaited first victory in Hawaii. The race was special for so many reasons: First, it was a transcendent performance that has stood for 30 years. The times of 8:09 and 8:10 shattered the previous world record by 20 minutes. Third place Greg Welch and the rest of the world’s elite were 23 minutes+ behind the duo in front—two athletes at the very top of their game pushing each other to the best performances of their lives. Even today, no pro has bested the six-minute per mile pace these two held across the steamy hot lava fields of Kona on the heels of swimming 2.4 miles and cycling 112 miles.

Second, the confluence of career arc’s made for high drama. Allen was the undisputed #1 triathlete in the world, virtually unbeatable at all distances from the Olympic distance circuit, to his 10 for 10 domination of the world long course championships in Nice, France. However, he was definitely cursed in Hawaii, with a string of mistakes and misfortunes keeping him from the victory that was the single void in his career accomplishments. Dave on the other hand was the King of Kona—six victories, many busting his own previous world record time and setting a superhuman standard for peaking on demand and performing in the extreme heat of Kona. By 1989 however, Dave seemed to be at the tail end of his career, was not racing much on the world circuit, and missed the 1988 Ironman due to injury. The pressure on both athletes to come through on the big day was enormous.

Thanks to an ambitious project by the Scott Zagarino Agency, the story of 1989 is being told in more detail than ever before. Check out the website 1989TheStory.com for a serial publication of articles from Mark and Dave about all things relating to the big race and their career and personal challenges at the time. Thirty years is sufficient time for reflection and perspective, and Mark and Dave each offer vulnerable and revealing insights about the psyche of a champion athlete and the challenges and pressures relating to performing on the world stage and pushing the limits of human endurance. If you are a triathlon enthusiast, this will be a huge treat. But even if you’ve never heard of these two senior citizens, the insights they share have a powerful application to all manner of peak performance goals, and striking the delicate balance between competing hard and achieving goals, and trying to remain healthy and balanced along the way.

TIMESTAMPS:

Legends Mark Allen and Dave Scott connect on the eve of the Hawaii Ironman to talk about their Iron war in 1989. [03:36]

Are they still enjoying their incredible story of thirty years ago? [13:20]

They have many stories to tell of the experience. [15:32]

1989 was about a race but it was also about life. [30:57]

You may as well be yourself; everybody else is taken. [39:41]

In the old days, there were fewer “tools” with which to measure how you were doing. [41:43]

Slow down to go faster. [47:10]

How are they handling the memories of the big “Iron war?” [58:11]

LINKS:

QUOTES:

  • “There’s a distinct line between amazing and stupid.” (Allen)
  • “You may as well be yourself; everybody else is taken.” (Allen)

LISTEN:

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Get Over Yourself Podcast

Brad: 00:00:08 Welcome to the get over yourself podcast. This is author and athlete, Brad Kearns, discovering ways to be healthy, fit and happy in hectic, high stress modern life. So let’s slow down and take a deep breath. Take a cold plunge and expertly balanced that competitive intensity with an appreciation of the journey. That’s the theme of the show. Here we go.

Brad: 00:00:33 Brad [00:03:30]. Oh my gosh! What a great honor to introduce this conversation with the legends of triathlon, Mark Allen and Dave Scott connecting with me from over in Kona on the Eve of the Hawaii iron man world triathlon championships and the 2019 race marks the 30th anniversary of their incredible battle that has gone down in history as the iron war, the greatest triathlon race of all time. Some people call it the greatest endurance race of all time. It’s hard to over-exaggerate the incredible experience that happened in 1989 with these two athletes at the very, very top of their game. Dave Scott was the legend of Kona. He was unstoppable. Unbeatable on the Island of Hawaii was six victories coming in to this 1989 race.

Brad: 00:04:27 That was his specialty, and Mark Allen, the greatest triathlete in the world. He was unbeatable at all distances, all over the globe except in Hawaii where he’d had an incredible succession of bad luck, failure, poor pacing, bombing out after having big leads. He just couldn’t get it right on the Island. So it was like the missing link in his triathlon resume whereby Dave was the crown jewel of his entire career because he didn’t race much on the circuit. Like many of the other athletes who just piqued magically for Hawaii every year. So these athletes were on a crash course for this incredible showdown and, oh my gosh, did they perform? The times they put in eight Oh nine and eight 10 were 23 minutes ahead of the next racer. So they destroyed the rest of the world class field. They shattered the world record for iron man.

Brad: 00:05:20 The previous record was 08:28 and this performance has held up incredibly well for 30 years. Even with all the progression in sport and records being shattered in all the different sports. What these guys did a long time ago is absolutely historic and legendary. And of course we have all the nuts and bolts and details that have already been accounted for in the many magazine articles. There was even a book written about the, the race itself. But what these two athletes are doing this year in conjunction with the Scott Zagarino agency is putting together a succession of stories that they’re publishing of behind the scenes commentary and in many cases, deeply revealing and vulnerable, uh, learning more about the character of these men and the challenges that they faced to get to the starting line. And deliver this magnificent performance under the lights. So we’re going to go deep with these two guys.

Brad: 00:06:12 If you’re a triathlete, Oh my goodness. Are you in for a treat? And even if you’re not a big fan of the endurance sports, just the life lessons and the reflections of these great performers, I think you’re gonna really love this show. These guys are wise, they’re funny, they’re reflective, they’re vulnerable. Mark Allen and Dave Scott, the greatest triathletes reflecting on the greatest race of all time. Here we go.

Brad: 00:06:36 I am so honored to have Mark Allen, Dave Scott, the dynamic duo. 30 years later celebrating this wonderful, uh, anniversary of what many people are calling the greatest triathlon race of all time. Maybe the greatest endurance battle of all time cause you guys were side by side for eight hours. And now we’re side by side for a little less time than that with the show. So I’m talking to you guys from Hawaii. What’s it like out there in iron man buildup week?

Mark Allen: 00:07:07 You know, it’s great because, uh, people ask me anyway, you know, don’t you miss racing? And I, and I just tell them, look, I’m, I’m here and I’m a part of it. You, you know, you can feel the energy, you know exactly what the athletes are going through. And, uh, hopefully, you know, with the interactions that, that both Dave and I have with the athletes and different functions here, we, we can kind of help them calm the nerves a little bit, connect with the Island a little bit better, hopefully pull out an amazing race out of their PR performance bag and, and, and ultimately really just have a great experience here at the Ironman in Hawaii.

Brad: 00:07:42 Ah, so that’s your, that’s your defined role. Interesting. You guys are walking around super chill, got a banana in your pocket and pineapple in your hand. Yeah. Telling everybody to chill. I love it. Yeah.

Mark Allen: 00:07:55 Well there are a lot, there’s a lot of nervous energy as you know, Brad and uh, most of the people that come up are pretty ambivalent about forecasting their day and it’s real hot here today. So, uh, I just had a guy who was chatting with them and he said, uh, yeah, I’ve gone under nine hours. I said, what are you going to do here? And he said, well, I’m open for nine 40. And I said, nine 40. I said, why? Where are you going to lose all that time? But I think that’s kind of the common notion that this course is gonna bite a lot of people. And I think going into it with a forecast that I’m not going to do well, you know, and that guy left and that’s just between the three of us. I thought I used to go by 11 hours, you know, and as I said, game over, you know, I’m hoping that he can pull it out, but I, uh, yeah, a lot of the people just don’t have the confidence and the calmness.

Brad: 00:08:47 Oh, that’s interesting. I mean, there’s a balance point here between a healthy respect for the Island, like Mark Allen going out there off the front many times. Right. And then also not being so intimidated that you’re, uh, you’re, you’re coughing up, uh, predictions that are, you know, maybe gonna, maybe gonna put you in a, a a dreaded mindset.

Mark Allen: 00:09:10 Yeah. You know, Dave, Dave really likes to talk about the years, like 84, 87 and, and, uh, so I’ll, I’ll talk about one of those 84. You know, I, I had this absolute flyer on the bike by Havi. I think I was pretty close to 12, 12 and a half minutes ahead and Havi right? Yeah.

Dave Scott: 00:09:27 I mean, huge, huge margin. He was on a motorcycle or else was floundering.

Mark Allen: 00:09:31 Yeah. Well, you know, they had the big camera van and so I was sitting right behind, but, um, and, and I don’t know what I was thinking. Right. You know, like you go so hard that you’re 12 and a half minutes ahead of DaveScott and the rest of the, the men’s field of, what was I thinking? But I just, I didn’t have a healthy enough respect for, uh, the limits of my own body. And Ironman has a way of uncapping those limits. Right? I mean, that’s kind of what you’re here to do, is to, to find a way to tap into something deeper and more powerful and more amazing than you would ever bring out anywhere else. But there’s a, there’s a, there’s a distinct line between amazing and stupid. And, uh, it took me quite a few years to sort of reign it in and go, okay, you know, I, I understand the distance, I’ve done the training to do it. But when you’re trying to put the swim bike and run together, if your life here on the big Island of Hawaii where the energy is strong, the weather’s intense and the competition is utterly amazing, you know, there has to be a temporary to that enthusiasm and a real calmness to and steadiness to what you’re doing. Cause otherwise you do go out too hard. You do, uh, you know, forget to take your nutrition or your, you go crazy and taken too much. And the next thing you know, you’re walking on the marathon and when you’re, when you’re trying to win, you know, let me tell you, nobody has won this race walking the marathon. So I had a few of those in those early years.

Brad: 00:11:01 We know the same insight it occurs to me applies to training in general because I referenced so many times where you get so excited you’re doing these buildups and you’re going out there day after day and maybe your stress hormones. I don’t know, Dave, you can reference the science here, but you have these binges of incredible training, but it’s not really sensible and realistic and there’s, you know, potential to crash and burn not only on the, on the run course, uh, on race day, but just before you even get to the starting line.

Dave Scott: 00:11:35 Man, I think a lot of athletes that have brand new ones, the ones that I alluded to and what Mark was talking about, an 84 race I think part of it is that yeah, you can have elevated stress hormones. I have all the time now, I’m not racing, but, uh, you know, everyone’s, everyone’s familiar with uh, adrenaline, epinephrine and also cortisol and cortisol levels. You know, that’s a good thing cause we fuel them with train and they go up and they should have subside. They go up a little bit in the morning cause they pushed a blood sugar news system. But you don’t want them elevate it all the time because they’re now they’re counterproductive. So, uh, I think when a lot of athletes come over here and the, and they’re mindful of, of disaster and they think, well I’m going to have a catastrophic race. Those cortisol levels can, uh, really present havoc on race day cause they’re already elevated before the gun goes off. You really want to try to have them as now we both use the word call home a lot and that, and that adds clarity to what you’re doing. But physiologically it all also allows you to extract the highest performance. And um, we add just for flank, very belief reasoning that Mark’s race in 84.

Dave Scott: 00:12:40 And I don’t know if it’s right or not because we’ve talked about, talk a lot about it, but, uh, and he can answer this better, but I’ll give you my quick opinion. Uh, you know, going out hard was, wasn’t anything that Mark has not done in the past. He’s gone out of heart before. He’s led racist on the bike and, and has pulled away. And what, but I think at the same time the mindset has to be, is this a stressful thing cause I am going too hard. Am I going above my capability or on, or am I going to reach to feed here too soon and these other guys are going to catch me. So, you know, you have to be in the mindset with a confidence that if you’re going to do well, but it’s set up very rice week.

Brad: 00:13:20 Oh boy. So here you are in, in Kona. I’m sure you’re, I’m still recognizable on the street. Not sure about New York City, maybe one in 10, but I’m sure you’re getting a lot of attention out there. And I want to know, you could tell me the truth here. It’s just us three talking, right? Or, uh, us four, um, is it, uh, enjoyable that you’re still milking the crap out of this, uh, this, this, this battle 30 years ago? Or do you feel a little bit, um, is it a little bit strange or perhaps uncomfortable to show up on the Island and, uh, there we go again through this, through this thing every single year.

Mark Allen: 00:14:00 You know, I think you got your math wrong Brad, because I think that race was only 10 years ago. I don’t know. It seems like everything you say in 30, but I would swear, I bet my life on it was 10. But you know, the, the interesting thing about, uh, the race in 89 is that I don’t think either Dave or I really understood the depth or the details of what actually went into making that happen. You know? And in some ways we were just doing our thing and we showed up and we did had this race and 30 years later, uh, actually really at the prompting of Scott Zagarino who’s my business partner, my coach coaching on coaching into both of us earlier this year. And he said, you know, it’s the 30th anniversary of your race. Pretty much what about 90% of the people know about it?

Dave Scott: 00:14:46 The only thing they know is that, you know, Mark pulled away on the last Hill and it was this amazing battle and they were side by side, but nobody knows the real story about all of the personal challenges that each of you had during that year and that, and the decisions that you had to make and the things that had to fall in place so that you could actually both arrive at that start line in the kind of shape to have the, that amazing side-by-side race race that you did. And you should do something to bring those details out. Tell people some of the stuff that you’ve probably kept close to the cuff and maybe only told your close families and friends and just to show people that you know, uh, everybody, even the best, even the greatest champions in any sport have to deal with those very human things that are common to all of us.

Mark Allen: 00:15:32 And you know, I think it struck a chord in both Dave and I was like, yeah, let’s do that. And so, uh, we started, uh, a number of weeks ago. We’re writing 10 stories together, kind of in tandem side by side of, at different times throughout that year leading up to the race. And then, and then, and obviously including the race in 89 and, uh, people can read those stories at 1989thestory.com and we’ve, at the time of this recording, we have, uh, we posted seven of the stories. There’s another one going up this Thursday, which will be tomorrow, uh, race day, race, race, day, week here in Kona. The final two stories, a killer, amazing two stories of race week. And then the race itself will be posted the two weeks following Kona this year. We didn’t want to step on the toes of what was going on here, so we kind of pushed it and made sure that our grand finale stories were coming after, you know, in respects of all the athletes who were racing here that they’ll come after this event has done so.

Mark Allen: 00:16:33 Um, but it’s, it’s just amazing to, he said as a boring or whatever to come back and do the same thing again. We’re, we’re not really doing the same thing again. You know, I think I have such an amazing insight into what Dave had to go through because of these stories, things that I never knew and I’ve also had to reflect and it’s reminded me of a lot of the things that I had to go through to actually get to that race. And so it’s, it’s kind of like a refreshing new telling of something that, that uh, you know, we have kind of said the same things about for lot of years this year. It’s very different.

Dave Scott: 00:17:10 Yeah. Well, I, my 2 cents worth, uh, you know, I think that sort of divulging what went on at Brad, you sort of segue into this question on, you know, as it’s the same old thing here at Kona. I mean, the one thing that kind of has this history now and so people are aware of the history of it. And I think where we start off as conversations, that difficulty of this race and that psychological part that people have. So people reflect back on this 89 race. And you know, we, we had pretty decent times back then that, uh, held and testament of time and, and, and I think a lot of people are just, you know, mildly, uh, blown away by the times, you know, 30 years ago what Mark was just talking about is that yes, the race itself has been profile in the eyes of the journalists that, that watched it and interviews that we had the interesting thing and read Mark’s synopsis and they were putting these side by side and overlapping them.

Dave Scott: 00:18:08 And each of the stories is what we do and have divulged in the story line. And so to read Mark’s account and went, wow, really, that’s amazing. And also this, I think the other side of it is a, at which I clearly have stated many, many times. I, I’ve, you know, I battled depression a lot during my career and wrestled with that. And I think that’s a real misnomer in, in sort of looking at my, both of us as these, uh, boy, you’re just amazing. You one 60 each and every time you became out there you had a great day and there’s no issues in your life. And that was totally the contrary. You know, I was a nut job for a good part of the year and I’d rally and I had friends and family that would kick me in the pants and say, you’ve got this big race coming up.

Mark Allen: 00:18:53 Yeah. So Dave, Dave was commenting the, uh, you know, there were these parallel stories and you know, in fact, there were actually two points during the year where I was not even going to go to Kona. One of them was at the very beginning of the year because I was coming off what, for me, was a pretty disastrous string of six races and kind of where I could be in the lead, but I couldn’t win it. And, and in 1988 year before Dave pulled out the night before the race, I thought it’s mine. I ended up getting three flat tires finishing in fifth place. It’s farther out of the lead than any of my other finishes there. And I thought, you know what, I’m not cut out for this race or something about it. That’s not for me. And so when I actually started training in January that year, I was not even going to go to Kona.

Mark Allen: 00:19:37 I had other races I was going to focus on and that turned around and eventually I thought, okay, yeah, no, I didn’t need to go back. But then a second point happened in August, right after the ITU world championships and Avignon France. I, I won that. I came back to Boulder. I immediately shifted into Ironman training mode because it was early August. And at that point you have to be thinking Kona all you know, 24 hours a day and a weekend to it. I was at a swim workout at the pool there and I went into the locker room to go to the bathroom. Next thing I knew I was waking up kind of on, on the, uh, on the floor. I passed out, smashed my head on the toilet and I was sitting there on the ground and going, I’m done. I’m not only done with Ironman, I am done with the sport because I don’t know what I’m doing to my body, but this is not a good thing. It just happened to me, you know, this is not good life health skills, you know, passing out as you’re standing there. And so, um, but again, things turned around. I took a week just completely, I was done with the sport. I did a little running just cause I like to run and next thing I knew my energy came back and of then, you know, I could hear the Island was calling like you need to come back. And so I ended up coming back.

Dave Scott: 00:20:56 But these are stories that, these are pieces to the puzzle that nobody’s heard before. I had to wait, too, Brad, at that time cause I did a Ironman Japan and I had committed to it early, early in the year. I didn’t know at the time my wife was pregnant. So I’m thinking, I don’t even want to go to this race because it’s around the same time as the event. And I went over there, I hastily left the ceremony early, which was not a good thing to do and, and uh, and a pretty fast time in that race. But I, my mind was what was really on, you know, the birth of my son Ryan. And that was to be here, uh, 30 years later. And, uh, so when I got back Mark’s falling all over the bathroom, bang his head, and he’s a mess.

Dave Scott: 00:21:42 And I’m not even thinking about thinking about the race. I’m just thinking about my son. So I, I came back from one eight Oh one in Japan and I didn’t really care how I got to Kona a few months, but I, I’m really just sort of enthralled with my new son that was born a couple of days later after I got home. And so I had, I had really two weeks where I just didn’t really care and didn’t want to think about Kona. And then all of a sudden, uh, I think I’ve got an electric rod from my sisters, so you hear to get off your butt, you can’t breastfeed so you better, uh, start exercising. So that was, you know, and I didn’t know what Mark was doing. We kinda had parallel times that early part of August where we didn’t really know what are we going to do on Kona in October.

Brad: 00:22:30 Yeah. I guess you can’t really share those stories in real time because uh, it’s possibly too vulnerable for an elite athlete with all this attention and expectation and pressure. Um, probably probably takes a while to, uh, to unwind from that. I, I gather that you guys, uh, rarely trained together or never trained together, probably for the same reason, which is unusual cause I think most of the triathletes mixed together pretty well in, in the hotbeds Boulder, San Diego or what have you. But it was a, was there sort of a protective mechanisms going on where you were keeping things close to the vest?

Dave Scott: 00:23:08 Oh, Mark was swimming at some of the sessions and actually, ironically my sister was coaching some of the sessions, but I kind of said to myself, well I don’t really want to get in a pool and you know, test the waters with Mark or against Mark because I, I felt if we were in the water, we’re just bloody competitive and you know, every repeat would be a flat out. So I said, I don’t really want to have that dark anvil on my shoulder by having Mark next to me. I, I do remember one workout and Mark had that one of those hydro planning full Louise on bread. I’m sure you’re familiar with of those things now. We had paddles on roadsides of garbage can and bloods. Nice. It, he was, that’s not really swimming. I don’t think they were making those spongy neoprene suits at the time.

Dave Scott: 00:23:56 But I can kind of see him over a couple of lanes and he was, you know, swimming each hundred under a minute or something. And I said, Oh, okay, this is a bunch of crap. He’s not going to be able to do this. And the race. You know, I thought that last thing I really wanted to do was to try to set up a ride or you don’t actual swim work out with Mark, but not at the same time. I knew, I knew Mark was working hard. We had many battles. The insight or foresight that I had was that he was going to be ready in 89 and, and, and it really kind of goes back to that. You know, I obviously had great admiration for Mark but had no desire to sit down and have a beer with him or work out with them.

Mark Allen: 00:24:41 Yeah.

Mark Allen: 00:24:43 I loved having training partners. Uh, but a training partner is somebody that you can go out with and have a really bad day and it doesn’t bother you. You know, and I, I can guarantee you if I, if Dave and I trained together and I was having a really bad day, I would bother me. You know, cause, you know, here’s the guy that, that’s setting the standard for the, for the entire sport. He’s won the race six times going into 89. And, uh, there was, there would be nothing to be gained by, by training with him. And even if I had a good day, it would probably be because I was going too hard. You know, I was, I was trained too hard. And as you alluded to very early on, uh, Brad, it’s, it’s really important to try to stick to what’s important for you to do and not get caught up in winning the days, you know, work out each each day. Because if you do that, by the time it gets to the race, you’re going to be done. You’re going to be flying, you’re going to be exhausted over trained, and you’re not going to have that great race, those special moments. You’ve only got a few of them in your life. And so why waste them on a training session?

Brad: 00:25:47 Right, right. So, Dave, you talked about these, these down periods, these struggles, um, and obviously Mark uh, you know, reading the interviews, books, talking to you. It’s not, uh, easy peaches and cream and cereal boxes and, and new shoes coming in the mail every three days. Uh, and I’m curious, I mean, there’s a lot of research now, uh, medical, psychological research that creative people, uh, have a greater propensity for a more extreme fluctuation in ups and downs of, of life, mood, energy and all those things. And, um, I’m curious like were those down periods potentially a necessary component of harnessing, you know, the, the amazing energy to push the limits of human endurance? I’ll ask the question to both of you.

Dave Scott: 00:26:39 Uh, I, you know, I kind of look back at my career and I think those were pretty moments, Brad. And I think we can kind of put them in a box and say, but yeah, but the outcome is, Oh, you won six iron man. He did pretty well let it play. I can look at those periods of my life and I, and, uh, they brought me down now so low, similar to any other, a depression or a compulsion that people have and I not kind of paralleled to, uh, uh, an alcoholic. We don’t really, we know that we shouldn’t drink too much and if I drink too much, it’s gonna sit send me over the edge psychologically and physiologically. And you know, people would always say, my close friends, they just go out for a four mile run. You’ll federally feel better than doing nothing.

Dave Scott: 00:27:25 And I always had this sort of compulsive behavior. It was all or nothing. So four mile run wasn’t that dosage that kind of mollified or tempered my depression that I had and I knew it was real chemically induced. The more I put off exercise, which was my release and ultimately my release, every time I’d take myself out of it. Uh, I also treated myself to this self-inflicted torture. I see. That seems kind of, uh, best in it. Word choice. I just put on it. But it got to the point where I didn’t want to talk to anyone. I didn’t want to see anyone. I would isolate myself in that house. And the difficulty was just kind of stepping out for the first time, knowing that what I could control was really my sickness, but yet I didn’t. So it, it, I think it’s puzzling for people to understand that.

Dave Scott: 00:28:22 Uh, but the simple phrase, it was either I could do it extremely well or not at all. There was, it was black, there was no in between. And, uh, you know, I, I looked at it because I’m keenly aware of depression that manifests itself with other, uh, athletes and also entertainers. And it’s pretty prevalent. And, you know, I, it’s unfortunate that like maybe the gold bar or the standard is too high, but, uh, it did bother me for a long time and I have a simple rule. I followed for 20 odd years, just do a little bit of exercise and it’s like, get out and breathe the air and just start moving. You know, I get that morphing, like kick those endorphins go up. And I, and I feel like, you know, now I can manage the day. And I didn’t do that back when I was competitive,

Mark Allen: 00:29:16 You know, I, would say I had a lot of really tough moments as far as results that were very difficult to swallow and to accept. And, uh, you know, in the short run after 1989, I thought, why did it, why did I have to go through all that tough stuff? You know, it was a little cynical in sense and then I realized that it was those really, really difficult races that I had where I had to pick up the pieces. It was a really difficult racist where even in the middle of it I had the choice, okay, I’m, I’m walking Dave, just pass me. Uh, is this day a waste? And if it’s not a waste, how can I make it worth keeping going? And the things I learned in through those really, really tough moments where I could’ve just given up and said, forget it.

Mark Allen: 00:30:09 You know, I’m going to take it easy, or whatever. I learned how to regroup and how to just sort of surrender and say, okay, this is, this is where it’s at right now. This is not my best race. But somehow let me get something out of it. Let me give an effort to it that you know, if and when I can’t get across that finish line, at least I’ll be able to hold my head high. And knowing that, you know, I stuck with it and I stayed with it. And though all of those lessons were absolutely essential to have stuff stored away in my DNA so that when the, when the good days came around, I was able to put up the races that I had on those just as, as well. And so, you know, you asked just great athletic endurance performance require you to have these sort of extreme maybe down periods.

Mark Allen: 00:30:57 And I don’t know if it’s necessary that you have them, but if you have them and you learn something from them, then you will definitely be able to be a better person and a more effective person. You’ll be able to bring more of just the better parts of yourself into any endeavor, whether it’s sports or life. And that’s, that’s kind of where, you know, 1989 it, it was about a race, but it was about life. And again, that’s something that, that Scott Zagarino saw, he’s the one publishing all of these stories. And, and he said, you guys have so much that you learned through those darkest times when you weren’t, you know, that your life wasn’t following the iconic road and view that, that all the people out there who see you on TV one time a year think your life was about. And we’ve actually had people come up to us, both Dave and I this week and say, you know, this gives me hope because these are things that, that, that are just there in my life too. And I thought because of that, I would never be able to do something amazing with it. And now I’m seeing that no, I have hope for my own life and my potential.

Brad: 00:32:12 Right. And obviously you both have this tremendous perspective looking back over decades. And I guess you could really call it a phase like Dave Scott’s rockstar, Motley Crue phase where he was holed up in the house just like just like them and didn’t want to come out and talk to people. Uh, but now, uh, you, you had to go through that to be the man that you are today. Um, I don’t know if you, it might be a dumb question to, um, could you do it differently and still wind up crossing the finish line, winning six times, but being this, uh, wonderfully balanced, sunny, well adjusted person from the, the years that you competed?

Dave Scott: 00:32:53 I’m not that insightful Brad. I don’t know how to answer that question. You, you presented it very well, but I certainly don’t have the answer. I mean I, I had, uh, I had depression that are, that are recognized, uh, all the way back to my early twenties, uh, well before this school or, and I think it was just a, you know, it was a standard in athletics cause I, you know, I was always a jock and, uh, but even on a, you know, a test and in school it’s the same thing. It was just the pressure that I put on myself and I don’t really know where that came from. I know my parents were good people. Um, you know, I kind of looked back at, um, in the times I, you know, finally I saw a counselor and talk to that counselor and, and uh, you know, I, I felt kind of this, uh, I don’t know, hidden pressure that really wasn’t a heavy hand by, by, uh, mom or dad.

Dave Scott: 00:33:51 I was just compelled always to drive myself to this crazy state. And, you know, if I could turn it around differently. Yeah. I think I pulled a lot of people that were close to me into helping me revamp. I think that that’s a hard burden to accept my family and close friends and, and I relied on them. Cause I, you know, I, it sounds like I was in dire straits that there were times where I, you know, I just was catatonic almost and I didn’t really want to do anything and I felt, gee, i don’t really care about, you know, the next, uh, race I’m gonna do, I can’t even put my shoes on right now.

Brad: 00:34:32 Yeah. I think most people, most people in town this week can relate to this, a hard driving type, A very driven mindset. And that, uh, that, that voice eating at you, uh, day and night to achieve and accomplish. And of course, I went through my, uh, years competing as a pro and now, ah, titling my podcasts, get over yourself. I, I’m trying to grow up and have this perspective or this balance of, you know, pushing hard and achieving great things, let’s say a still in athletics or in, uh, in my career, but not dipping back into, uh, that, that dysfunctional part that you both describe where you’re a suffering pain and torment, uh, you know, mentally because you didn’t win a race. It’s like Boohoo Mark Allen, I’m sorry you got fourth in Hawaii. Most people would kill for top five. Right? Um, I mean, yeah, getting a flat three times sucks. So, uh, that’s a worse fourth than the guy who, uh, who pass 12 people on the run. Uh, but today, uh, as I finished my rambling question, um, can you, can you apply this perspective in a healthy manner? Do we have like a happy ending to the story as you guys are, uh, into adult life and doing all kinds of other things besides laying it down on the lava fields?

Mark Allen: 00:35:52 Well, I think the happy end into the story is what we’re doing this year with 1989 the story.com. You know, we’re, we’re telling and sharing what happened and, and a lot of, I think, uh, what brings things full circle for people is, you know, first you have something that’s challenging. Second, maybe then you know, you figure out what that is. You, you, you, you do a workaround that gets you passed. And then finally you get to a point where you just accept that, you know, I had something that was holding me back, whether it was my personality or, uh, an approach or a perspective that really wasn’t healthy. And, and now I’m, I’m sharing that with you. You know, the, the universal you, and that is, that’s just a, I think a real, that’s a real healthy perspective. You know, when, when someone’s, like Dave said, when somebody’s an alcoholic and, and they, they admit it to themselves and they admit it to their friends and their family and they do something about it, that’s a huge rebalancing of all the energies, right?

Mark Allen: 00:36:56 You stopped, you’d stop having to rely necessarily on those people to pull you out of the gutter. And, and uh, you know, not, not that, not that sport in triathlon is like that, but it just provided the, the iron man is a very challenging race and it provides a window into your soul, into your character, into, into weakness, weaknesses that you have and, and faults in the strengths that can work, work against you. And you know, both, I would say Dave and I really do like to put up something perfect no matter what it is that we’re doing. And so you have a lousy race that’s not perfect and it can get you down or you have a lousy workout that can drag you down. But ultimately, you know, here we are, we’re we’re side by side and we’re, we’re kind of joining forces and, and telling these kind of fun stories, you know, and um, two senior citizens, right? Yeah. You know that our teeth are still on our head and, and uh, the wheelchairs are going to be delivered later today, but so far we can ramble around the hotel room here.

Dave Scott: 00:38:00 You’re listening. It’s hard to expose vulnerabilities. I think, you know, at what point do people do that? Some, some could do it decades before, maybe we both come to the point in our lives. We say, Whoa, Whoa, Whoa. What, what are we withholding? Are we not willing to share this? For me, it was just a point where I’d said, no, wait, we all have this open hole sometimes emotionally and psychologically and, and it doesn’t really have anything to do about your physical, that wholeness is a, is much greater than how fast we could run.

Brad: 00:38:42 You’re listening to multi-sport therapy radio with Brad Kearns, my guest, Dr Dave Scott and Dr. Mark Allen talking you through everything.Yeah. You’re in your broadcast. Get over yourself. You know, I, in the years that I wasn’t winning, I, I would look at Dave and he was like this gigantic icon that would just show up on the Island. And what he did, he, it’s like he got pumped up to about 150 PSI and he was invincible, at least I thought that’s what I was thinking. And so I was trying to be like, Dave, you know, I thought if I’m going to win this thing, I gotta be like Dave Scott and I re and finally, you know, I realized that I’m just not hardwired that way. My best races seem to happen when I was actually feeling more calm and relaxed and more just fluid and not like I was going to overpower anything really. And I couldn’t see that way of being as being something that could muster up a great race here in Hawaii.

Mark Allen: 00:39:41 Because here it’s intense, it’s hot, there’s winds, all the things that everybody’s talked about for years. And so, you know, finally in 1989 I just go, you know what? I’ve got to get over this feeling like I’ve got to be something else that I’m not, and just become here and just be myself and hopefully whatever I get out of the race, that’s good. That’s going to be good enough. And um, you know, it’s like I saw a quote just recently that said, you may as well be yourself. Everybody else is taken. You know, that’s kind of what I was trying to do in those early years. And I sort of had to get over myself and say no to. It’s okay to just be you who it’s okay to be me who I am and just to come here with the things that helped me feel a sense of peace and strength and that, that was very different than what I was seeing in Dave. And maybe they’re the same, I don’t know. But, um, that was a real shift for me.

Brad: 00:40:38 Well said, Mark. I think that’s where Zagg comes on strong with drawing these parallels to everyone and everything we’re doing in life. Um, all of us on the show here are parents of children now in their adult years. And I find myself just pounding this message over and over because there’s so many, uh, measuring and judging, judging and pressuring forces in life where the kid is expected to be this, that, or the other thing, rather than be themselves and go on their own journey without regard to, um, you know, how many points they’re scoring, uh, on the social media, uh, countdown.

Mark Allen: 00:41:15 Well said, read my kids, give me advice. I mean, they know I’m a nut job and I have this crazy history and the and I still, you know, I’m really candid with my comments and they’re sometimes in disbelief. So I always ask them for advice. My daughters, 23 now and she’s the youngest of my three, and I always ask her for advice, you know, most of the time she’ll press it like, gosh, you’re so stupid.

Brad: 00:41:43 That’s great. I think that’s a wonderful celebration. Yeah. I mean, when your kid can give you advice, you know, you know, you’ve done a good job as a parent. My son does the same thing. When he hears me rapping to start my shows, which I do sometimes. He goes, dad, you’re misappropriating hip hop culture. I’m like, what are you talking about? I’m good. I’m not misappropriating anything fool. Okay, let’s get into the, um, the, the sweaty heartbeat side of the show. And I want to bring up one thing that’s just really fascinating to me and that is how incredibly well that performance has held up for three decades because sport has progressed, uh, incredibly in that time, especially triathlon with the globalization and the introduction into the Olympics and the funding and the Brown leads running 29 minutes off the bike and me going no way. And then looking up, the course has got GPS certified. So dudes are running 29 minutes off the bike, but way long time ago on inferior equipment and all those other things that have progressed since then. Your, your time still hold up as exceptional. And I know they’ve changed the course and things and they don’t count the, uh, the transitions anymore. But I believe you guys are the fastest runners or very close, even though quote unquote, the records had been broken, but that, uh, it’s just an explicable with so much, so much progression in sport. What do you guys have to say about that?

Mark Allen: 00:43:14 You know, there’s, there’s so much about sport and performance that can be measured. You know, like we always said, if it was all about the numbers, you just hand in your training log and we figure out who’s going to get the metals from there. So there’s this, this real human side, the human element to performance in athletics that is not measurable. You know, what number does fear show up as on your Garmin device? You know, what’s your GPS going to tell you about how fast you going to go based on the commitment that you have, the, you know, how do you deal with, now you’re going to deal with fear. How are you going to deal with a disappointment? How are you going to deal with a moment that looks completely impossible to realize a dream that you set out to accomplish for yourself? And you know, I think partly because back in the days when Dave and I were racing, we didn’t have as many devices to measure us to tell us whether we were doing well or not. We started, certainly certainly developed a, a deeper int intuitive sense about ourselves and uh, maybe a stronger toolbox on how to manage our internal, uh, internal character and our internal mental space during races because we knew that these things were important and we had plenty of time practice it in racing, uh, because we weren’t being distracted by as many numbers. And that’s really one of the main things. The only one, the only thing that I can come up with that really explains how our times have been able to stay fairly relevant 30 years later. Dave, I don’t know if you can answer that.

Dave Scott: 00:44:53 Yeah, I think Mark hit around the nose. I mean Brad I, I started using a wristwatch, that was the first thing I was training some people, the heart rate monitors come out, but they wait about nine pounds and they’re real cumbersome. I said, I’ll wear that stupid thing even though I told some athletes to use them. Uh, and I, I didn’t use a wall oxygenated or Ironman races. It was just a, I think I’m capable of going this hard and that’s what I’m going to lock in and do. And I never really paid attention. Like, you know, this is the time at X point with the, with the lead van that had the, you know, the running clock or there was a digital clock back in 89 I think. But it was just running on insight and the proceeded exertion and what I felt capable of doing.

Dave Scott: 00:45:35 I liked the numbers part in projecting, but it wasn’t the focal point when I race, I didn’t, I didn’t use them. You know, the power meters are a really cool thing, but I think we, we’ve become programmed by him. And I don’t know Brad, if you remember [inaudible] , but he was the first one. It was totally manic about his heart rate and you got second one here in Kona. You may see an athlete, but I remember hearing one time, I have to keep my heart rate and this, this range. And I, you know, I was just totally complexed and befuddled by that. I said, well, how about if people find beats are, are when the darn thing, uh, well that’s, that’s nonsense, you know, but he, he, he was real stoic. He didn’t really have a great sense of humor. Amazing athlete, uh, Mark, I didn’t rely on those devices.

Dave Scott: 00:46:24 Uh, and what I’m going to cover in, in the, um, and the chapter 10 of 1989, a story.com, which I’ll just share a little light on, was there was a press conference, uh, which are always ones before. And someone said, what do you think you could do? And so I, I blurted it out the times that I thought I could do. And it was really just me. It wasn’t a lot of that race against the other athletes. And Mark’s getting pushed me to these times. I just thought, I think I can do this. And uh, and you know, it wasn’t arrogant. It was within the realm of what obviously has started, what I’d done, I’ve done over here, but it was also kind of ITI. Just want to push the awful upon this. I think that could go a lot faster. Let’s see. That happens.

Brad: 00:47:10 Well I think the dreaming it up was definitely the necessary first step for anyone breaking a world record. So that’s a, that’s an interesting insight. I’m also curious, you guys are both so deep into the coaching scene, uh, for, for this entire time your entire in the sport. And we know there’s a big problem with over training and uh, some of these patterns that the, the triathlon crowd is engaging in. And I’m wondering if that’s, uh, some of the hold back too, besides this obsession with tech. Um, you know, even at the elite level, certainly at the amateur level, but Dave, I remember you, you tell Andrew and I and a meeting in 1988, if you just run three hours in Hawaii, you’ll be top 10. And it was like a side Quip. And I remember, you know, every year when you look at the results, the splits, uh, it pretty much holds true that if you can pedal bicycle for five hours or whatever and get off and run a respectable marathon, which kind of implies that you’ve taken care of your body for the many months leading up to the race and you haven’t over-trained and kind of, you know, set yourself up for calf cramps or stomach distress or things that occur in an overly stressed athlete. I wonder if that’s a component of it too, not only in the athletes, but for, for everyone. Can we go faster if we maybe slow down and take care of our bodies a little better?

Mark Allen: 00:48:31 Yeah, that’s, that’s a kinda the, one of the mantras that I use with my athletes a lot is slow down to get faster. And uh, that’s actually, uh, one of the keys in the book that I wrote with that kind of fits all fit body. It’s, it is slow down and get faster. And that’s, you know, human beings are not hardwired to go super anaerobic, really hard, every single day, every workout, every week. You know, we’re, we’re the best endurance animals on the planet, even better than the horses. And so we’re designed genetically to function really well at, at, at just moderate paces, over long distances, over long periods of time. And you know, you start throwing in the fight or flight anaerobic stuff, that’s essential to fine tune that, that real aerobic base and that, that endurance engine, but it’s, it’s not, should not be the, the main staple of your, your training diet, I don’t think anyway.

Mark Allen: 00:49:29 And you know, it’ll give you a super quick good results, immediate fitness gains, doing really hard stuff. Uh, but it’s a slippery, becomes a slippery slope very quickly because as Dave said, you know, that raises cortisol and overtime, if it’s elevated all the time, you’re going to be burned out. You’re going to get injured, it’ll suppress your immune system, you’ll feel lack of motivation. Your sleep gets disrupted. Uh, you start actually getting reduction in, in release of human growth, hormone, testosterone, all the things that you don’t want to have happen as an athlete. Right. And so, you know, that I think that’s, that was one of the things that really helped me was just sort of trying to be a little bit more moderate in my day to day enthusiasm so that I had a more consistency over the long haul and then ultimately better results because of that.

Brad: 00:50:21 Dave, what are you saying?

Dave Scott: 00:50:23 Well, I think Mark was right on the money on that. I don’t, I’m not really sure if I follow that, uh, program because there was a lot of, there are a lot of moments where I just said, I want to go out and smash myself. And then as soon as I got on my bike, I set up, uh, you know, I glanced at the clock on the wall. I say, well, I want to do this ride. I want a hotel I can get back. And so I’d just go flat out from the get go. And, uh, I was, Mark’s really bright, so he was, he wasn’t Buddha, but I wasn’t, uh, I, it all seriousness. There is a common thread with endurance athletes were all the reasons of physiological destruction that Mark mentioned. If we kind of go kind of hard all the time, that’s unhealthy. And the common thread which has caused in his heart related issues, which I have, um, is that your heart has a tendency to compensate for this load.

Dave Scott: 00:51:21 It’s destructive for the rest of your physiology, but you’re trying to elevate your heart rate. Um, and you’re not getting this sort of flushing that’s really not the proper term, but your struggle, you might have blood that you pump per B. You’re not getting as cleansing action. So you’re better off that the storyline is go easier. And there are periods where you go harder, but there are some sometimes where you just go at a moderate to light effort. Uh, I know that data on this, I studied it before I actually had this problem. I’ve talked a lot of, uh, electrophysiologist and cardiologists on it that have looked at the incidence and the prevalence of heart arrhythmias with athletes. And it’s off the charts. So triathletes are having problems, runners, cyclists, Nordic skiers, I and really seen, uh, the onset coming on earlier, not multi-decade at athletes like myself, my name come on until I was, uh, uh, over 60.

Dave Scott: 00:52:18 And I just kept kind of smashing myself. And, uh, the common one that most athletes hear about is atrial fibrillation affects the atrium. There’s ventric ventricular tachycardia and atrial flutter. I had two of them. I still have it. I’ve had two ablations. I had a seven hour procedure end of May, it didn’t take care of it cause I came back too hard, too fast. Not necessarily exercise, but just not align myself to emotionally and mentally heal it. And the reason I’m bringing this up is not for the drama effect, is that I think a lot of athletes, Brad, coming back to your question and what Mark, uh, cited very well is that we have a tendency not to allow, the key component of really three is that we need overload. We need progression, but we need recovery in our workouts. So that’s from day to day. And that recovery is affects us a lot of different ways. But, um, I didn’t allow it enough and hence the problem

Brad: 00:53:20 Heads up listeners, seven, eight hour race and a seven hour procedure decades later. So do it. Right.

Dave Scott: 00:53:30 That’s exactly right. You stated that eloquently. People are just not doing enough surfing. It’s a, you know, I surf almost every day, not that I’m going to live forever, but, um, you gotta do stuff that’s stress reducing, you know, and exercise exercises, adding stress to your life. You’re not, you don’t have the right formula. You know, it should be reducing the stress in your life. And so yeah, that’s why you exercise. But I got right now, so that’s a problem. You know, you have a heart I go road and it doesn’t pump out a lot of volume and uh, yeah, it’s hard to RM to, um, Jack up the exercise intensity because I, I have this hard stuff so I’m just, I’m telling athletes, you know, be careful, ongoing long and hard all the time. Cause that’s the big thread on this.

Brad: 00:54:25 Yeah. And I also, uh, picked up an insight from Maffetone, this is what, 24 years too late. But he said, you know, there’s never any reason to exceed 90% of maximum heart rate and training. And I’m like, well wait a second, that’s 20 beats below my max if I’m the young athlete pounding out these track workouts and all this crazy stuff where your heart rates going up into that final 10% zone. And it makes a lot of sense with the argument being that you don’t really need to train your brain nor the anaerobic muscle fibers to, to go at maximum effort unless it’s a race where there’s, you know, people screaming behind barriers. So I think, uh, w you know, we’ve pretty

Mark Allen: 00:55:08 Brad, I mean I’m part of, I’m resigned, excuse me for interrupting because, uh, I want to athletes to get it right though. The higher intensity interval training is fine. It’s just that you can’t do big volumes of it and you can’t do it back to back, but it’s a real good stimulus for elevating this protein called myokine and, and that has a very positive effect on your physiology. It’s just that the, the repetitive volume of it is really the destructive part. So Phil had part of it, right? And I’m not trying to downplay his messaging. Uh, it’s just, and I think it probably is for warning is that he was seeing too many athletes just to do too much, uh, on a repetitive pattern day to day. So the hard bits are fine. It just set the temperature a bit.

Brad: 00:56:01 Right. And I guess the duration is so important too. Cause I’m going out and doing all out to hundred meter, uh, in my workout or running a hundred meter sprints, which I think is a promoting health as well as fitness. But when you’re going out there and doing, uh, you know, running up the side of a mountain, trying to, trying to stay with the pack and then doing it again on Saturday, that’s where we see these digging yourself a hole and getting into the cardiovascular disease risk category.

Mark Allen: 00:56:30 Correct.

Brad: 00:56:31 So guys, you talked about your struggles leading up to this big event and then behold the greatest endurance race of all time and this incredible, highly celebrated, uh, race. One guy had to come in first, one guy had to come in second. Um, but of course it was, you know, by all accounts a tremendous achievement by both of you. And I’m curious in the aftermath, uh, how did it feel, especially did you have any let down both to the winner and to the runner up?

Mark Allen: 00:57:04 Well, you know, pretty hard to be let down after you win the race. Uh, especially cause it took me seven years to get it right and I’ve gone through a lot of personal challenge just to even get to the start line that year. So it was, it was very, very satisfying, you know, in the years to come. Uh, it became clear though that that winning a race does not make your life ultimately this ecstatic experience. 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. You still have to come home and, and throw your clothes in the laundry and fold it when it comes out and you have to take the garbage out and you have, I have to do the, pay the bills and do all these things, you know, and eventually you have children and they challenge you and you have to deal with that. And so, you know, the, I really just try to put that race in all the races, uh, kind of in a, just a really special place and realize that that was an incredible moment in my life. Uh, it’s not, it doesn’t define everything that I am. It doesn’t embody everything that I am. But, uh, yeah, I’m very, very lucky to have been a part of it. And, and I said it’d be a part of it.

Mark Allen: 00:58:11 people ask us, well, how was that battle? And I say, you know, the word battle isn’t really the right word. It was just this incredible thing that happened when the two of us were on the, on this wavelength. It just separated us from the rest of the universe. And you know, I mean third place was, what, 23 minutes behind us. You know, that’s, that’s a big chunk of time. That’s a lot of pavement that that guy had to cover Greg Welsh to be the third guy crossed that line. And so we were kind of in just in this envelope above this uncharted territory that was we put together because the two of us were on, on, on the same day. And um, you know, and in reality, you know, it’s kind of redefines what people, how people looked at the Ironman. They realized that this, this thing that most people trying to survive can actually be raced the entire way from start to finish. And it, it really, I think, elevated the expectation of everybody of what they wanted to get out of themselves out of their race and their performance there.Nice.

Mark Allen: 00:59:19 We’re, we’re sitting here in the, in the, in the posh hotel and they’re setting up the, the awards banquet stage, which is actually, if you’ve never been here, it’s, it’s in a parking lot. It’s outdoors. There’s at least 5,000 seats of tables set up already. And, uh, they’re practicing the sound system. So if you hear us, you know, it’s not Dave’s a iPhone going off with a little bit of his, his home music. It’s actually the stage for the, for the Ironman awards banquet and welcome bank with, it’ll happen in a couple of days. So it’s live and it’s happening here.

Brad: 00:59:59 Dave, what about you?

Dave Scott: 01:00:03 Um, again, it was interesting time. Uh, just going back real quick, I’ll, I’ll, I will have a long dissertation on this. I mean, in 88 when I bowed out and, uh, and my family and friends, uh, were there, I said, well, Mark’s going to win this race. And I, you know, I just gave him this race and I kind of thought that for a minute. Like, woe is me. I can’t race, Mark’s gonna win. And then he had a disastrous day. And I thought, okay, good, we will, maybe we’ll race in 89. This will be kind of fun. And I, but at the same time I felt like, you know, I didn’t need Mark to escort me in the race in 89. I said, no, I know how to win this race without him. I mean, uh, some with the guide me through it. So going into 89, I just thought, well, I’m going to have a solid day. I don’t, didn’t really know what that definition was until I was asked by a reporter what I thought I was capable of doing. And uh, you know, again, it’s just a unfold that we were kind of glued together the whole time, but I didn’t really like him there actually not, you bring it up. I kind of want to ditch him a couple times on the bike and

Brad: 01:01:13 yeah, the first line of the newspaper article in Kona was, yeah, this guy kept slapping my feet during the swim and I was quite annoyed. I read that on the plane going home.

Dave Scott: 01:01:26 Oh well there was, there seemed to be a school of Toronto right behind me, but I knew the one with the biggest teeth was Marks

Mark Allen: 01:01:34 that that quote actually to, to make history correct. Was uh, from his, from his when in 1987 and that year, that year, uh, I actually, he and I were together actually for quite a bit of the marathon. I pulled away with 10 miles ago. I had a five minute lead and I, and I thought I had it sewed up. Well two miles later as kid history would show, I, I ended up walking, Dave won. I actually ended up going to the hospital with internal bleeding and the next morning I was, I was still in the hospital and definitely not in a great state. And somebody brought me the whole, that’s brutal. And Dave said, yeah, Markel was on my feet though. And he was hitting my feet the whole way on the swim. And I’m thinking, you won

Dave Scott: 01:02:20 the frigging race, man. Quit complaining about some guy hit me. I’m in a hospital. Okay, I got my dues.

Mark Allen: 01:02:26 I didn’t, I didn’t send them a nice bouquet of flowers. He’s hurting a bit more. It seems like he’s stabilized though. He should be. Okay.

Brad: 01:02:36 Oh, okay. guys I love the, uh, the, the sense of humor, the reflections. It’s been such a privilege to connect for this past hour. Uh, listeners, you can go get much more fun and games at 1989thestory.com . Correct. Thank you. Scott Zagarino agency.

Dave Scott: 01:02:56 Yes. Thank you Brad. It was a pleasure to chat with you. You obviously know our history while we raise speed against you as, as well during your hey days. So you know, the numbers, uh, weren’t huge with the talent, but we had a talent pool way back when. So, uh, which just happened to be Mark and I on the on, um, you know, a period during the 80s where we raised a number of times and you’re looking pretty dang good yourself man. So we are friends. You keep doing what you’re doing because you’re setting a good example for everyone else.

Brad: 01:03:28 I’m just trying to humbly break Guinness world records in, in speed golf and uh, you know, keep, keep the, keep the dream alive, keep the torch, keep the torch burning. And so the older, the older that we get, the faster we were too. So we can, we can tell stories all day long and then go good luck watching the race on Saturday. Gentlemen.

Dave Scott: 01:03:47 Thank you Brad. We uh, w we have some duties coming up here real soon as part of our obligations with iron man. But it was a good way good to say add one thing. I mean, what are you kinda talking about? Uh, yesterday and, and sort of the week here and, and one of the things that Mark and I just decided to do was to greet the people that were coming in on the parade. So all the nations will come in, in alphabetical order. We just sort of stood out front and I don’t know how many, I don’t know, hundreds of hundreds of pictures and sweaty bodies kind of engulfed us. But I think, you know, part of the, it w it wasn’t just ego and for us to do this, it was also I think, you know, sort of respect for the Island that make history and that race and are racist in the an 80 success or failure or how however you look at them. I think there is a common linkage even to this day in 2019, uh, for 30 to 40 years ago we were racing.

Brad: 01:04:47 Oh my gosh, what a, what a gesture. That sounds so cool. It’s, it’s worth qualifying for the, for the race just to, just to have the parade experience.

Mark Allen: 01:04:57 You can’t miss it. Yeah.

Brad: 01:04:59 Mark Allen. Dave Scott, thank you so much.

Brad: 01:05:04 Thank you for listening to the show. We would love your feedback at getoveryourselfpodcast@gmail.com and we would also love if you could leave a rating and a review on iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts. I know it’s a hassle. You have to go to desktop, iTunes, click on the tab that says ratings and reviews and then click to rate the show anywhere from five to five stars. And it really helps spread the word so more people can find the show and get over themselves cause they need to. Thanks for doing it.

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